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Old 11-13-2018, 05:59 PM   #16
Skip_Bayless
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

As people clamor for more people to be armed and do what he did, how do we prevent what ended up happening to him from happening to others?

^
Answer his question.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Hawker
There's been multiple instances where a good guy with a gun has defended him/herself. I could point to those and say, "Wow. What a great way to prevent these eventualities in the future."

This is a sad incident no doubt but don't act like this is how it's going to end up 100% of the time. I mean, he did actually prevent a shooting with a gun...so that actually did work. The issue is the cops fucking up. You can say, "we shouldn't arm them" but how can you 100% prevent the idiot shooter from obtaining a gun in the first place?

That's the point. There have been other situations like this where someone who was defending themselves or others ended up shot by police when they arrived on the scene. What happened to the young man will not happen 100% of the time, but it will happen a lot. It's a complex situation that requires a lot of training. I don't think people appreciate just how volatile these sorts of scenarios are. Concerns about this very thing have been repeatedly dismissed. Here we are again.

Incidentally, the NRA has said nothing about this young man or this incident.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip_Bayless
As people clamor for more people to be armed and do what he did, how do we prevent what ended up happening to him from happening to others?

^
Answer his question.


Don't think you can. In the heat of the moment, mistakes and accidents will happen. The only thing you can do to prevent this from happening again is to train extensively for these types of scenarios.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip_Bayless
As people clamor for more people to be armed and do what he did, how do we prevent what ended up happening to him from happening to others?

^
Answer his question.


As people build more homes in coastal areas, how do we prevent what ended up happening to folks in Houston or New Orleans from happening to others?

We've got more people driving cars on the road. How do we prevent accidents?

Life isn't perfect. Tragedies happen.

If we can minimize them, great. But I don't have an answer to his question. You're obviously fishing for an "Okay, OKAY, we need to ban all guns ASAP!" admission from me. But you won't get one.

If you think he's asking such an important question, then you go ahead and answer it.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Akrazotile
You said "I don't think race matters here."

I don't think race matters here because it's not my primary concern in regards to this specific topic. Witnesses at the scene have indicated that the officer who shot the young man was white. The Huffington Post has their take on the incident, but in my assessment, whether the police officer was white, black or otherwise, the salient concern is that this was a "good guy with a gun" who was shot by a police officer while protecting others. Concerns about this very eventuality have been repeatedly dismissed, so sticking to the point of the thread, at what point will people acknowledge that simply arming more teachers and church congregants is not the easy solution it has been made out to be. A significant amount of training needs to be had on all sides, but how do we stop what happened to this young man from happening to others in the future?
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Patrick Chewing
Don't think you can. In the heat of the moment, mistakes and accidents will happen. The only thing you can do to prevent this from happening again is to train extensively for these types of scenarios.

So we are going to train everyone that has a gun that can potentially be “a good guy” in a situation where they have to draw against a perp? I don’t see that as being feasible.

As long as criminals can get guns, you won’t get a ban all guns vote from me. So that puts us right back to where we started.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Akrazotile
If we can minimize them, great. But I don't have an answer to his question. You're obviously fishing for an "Okay, OKAY, we need to ban all guns ASAP!" admission from me. But you won't get one.

If you think he's asking such an important question, then you go ahead and answer it.

I don't think anyone in this thread is speaking out about banning guns. Strawmen aside, the point is that people have forwarded the easy solution that arming more individuals is the answer to making people safer, but this latest incident underscores just how complex these sorts of situations are and how they can quickly go sideways. Perhaps we can step away from the "ban all guns" and "we need more people with guns" extremes that are so easy to fall back on and have a proper discussion about the issue.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by MaxFly
I don't think anyone in this thread is speaking out about banning guns. Strawmen aside, the point is that people have forwarded the easy solution that arming more individuals is the answer to making people safer, but this latest incident underscores just how complex these sorts of situations are and how they can quickly go sideways. Perhaps we can step away from the "ban all guns" and "we need more people with guns" extremes that are so easy to fall back on and have a proper discussion about the issue.

We donít have enough data to have a proper discussion. Letís be real here.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:42 PM   #24
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Skip_Bayless
So we are going to train everyone that has a gun that can potentially be ďa good guyĒ in a situation where they have to draw against a perp? I donít see that as being feasible.

As long as criminals can get guns, you wonít get a ban all guns vote from me. So that puts us right back to where we started.


There are gun training classes available on a daily basis to the general public.


Bottom line is, crime will always happen one way or the other. The amount of accidental shootings in this case are so infinitesimal that drastic measures are not needed in my opinion.
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Old 11-13-2018, 06:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by Skip_Bayless
We donít have enough data to have a proper discussion. Letís be real here.

That's actually part of a proper discussion: what kinds of data will we need, what kinds of feedback are critical in addressing these sorts of proposals. The NRA is quick to say that we need to arm more people, and certain legislators are quick to jump in and agree, but they give little thought to the feasibility of what they're proposing. Every now and then, guys like the young man in the story I posted about are killed and they are MIA, only to return when the next mass shooting takes place.
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Old 11-13-2018, 11:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Well the general gun violence issue is two pronged:

Gang/street violence, and mass shooters.

If it was only mass shooters, Id say let’s make it a requirement to own property in order to own a gun. Angsty teenagers with isolation complexes are not whom the second amendement ever intended to arm. People with property and families to protect are quite obviously whom it was intended for. This would obviously not eliminate all mass shootings, but I believe it would help reduce them in a way that doesnt obstruct responsible citizens from owning weapons when they have a genuine reason. And of course Im just throwing a very broad, undeveloped idea out there. Maybe it ultimately wouldnt work and another solution would be needed. But more people would be amenable to the conversation, if we didnt have the second problem.

Which is that we still have so much gang violence and home invasion in America. Personally I cant believe we still tolerate this nonsense. It’s an obvious result of localized poverty, which itself is a result of things like immigration, teen pregnancy and absentee fatherhood. Bc these ganglands generally all have Democrat leaders, so we know it isnt “teh republicans making teh people poor cuz trickle down is stoopid!” Libs are so scared to call out the average (or below average) person and hold them accountable, bc as Ive said many times, libs are statistically less dominant men. They cant call out their neighbors and hold people to standards, bc theyre mentally weak so how are they gonna pull rank. They only feel secure caling out “teh rich” and “teh church” etc. But it’s not the rich, the right, the church, the NRA etc that causes inner city poverty. It’s immigration, teen pregnancy, and lack of parenta accountability.

So what do you wanna do? Keep avoiding the real problems just so you never have to admit anyone who ever voted republican was right about something? Bc thats how most on the left operate. Well, Ok. We wont get anywhere on these things, but as long as you can concoct scenarios where 100% of the blame is on the NRA, I guess youre okay. Not sure if that means blood is on your hands as well, but maybe it’s somethin to think about.

Last edited by Akrazotile : 11-13-2018 at 11:15 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:19 AM   #27
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

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Originally Posted by HarryBergeron
You are a troll no doubt but I guarantee you really are a miserable lonely POS in real life.

I really do feel sorry for you though.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:21 AM   #28
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
That's the point. There have been other situations like this where someone who was defending themselves or others ended up shot by police when they arrived on the scene. What happened to the young man will not happen 100% of the time, but it will happen a lot. It's a complex situation that requires a lot of training. I don't think people appreciate just how volatile these sorts of scenarios are. Concerns about this very thing have been repeatedly dismissed. Here we are again.

Incidentally, the NRA has said nothing about this young man or this incident.

Wrong color...the NRA knows who are their members.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I don't think race matters here because it's not my primary concern in regards to this specific topic. Witnesses at the scene have indicated that the officer who shot the young man was white. The Huffington Post has their take on the incident, but in my assessment, whether the police officer was white, black or otherwise, the salient concern is that this was a "good guy with a gun" who was shot by a police officer while protecting others. Concerns about this very eventuality have been repeatedly dismissed, so sticking to the point of the thread, at what point will people acknowledge that simply arming more teachers and church congregants is not the easy solution it has been made out to be. A significant amount of training needs to be had on all sides, but how do we stop what happened to this young man from happening to others in the future?
Was there really ever any doubt?

You come off as naive ITT
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Good Guy with a Gun Killed by Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Back on topic... "good guy with a gun." Why was this young man shot, and given the push to arm teachers and others, how are we going to address and prevent such eventualities in the future?
He was shot because the police made a mistake.

I'm not sure 1 case warrants such an overreaction. Unless the data says it's a widespread problem, don't get caught up in isolated incidents.
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