Magic vs Chuck 88

[Milbuck]

Peak for peak Lebron is better than either Magic or Barkley. Magic at least is close. There is absolutely zero argument for Barkley over Lebron. Like not even close to one either.

[K Xerxes]

That's going overboard as well, he's not on another level overall.

One can make a pretty good case that Charles is even better. He wins 1 ring and he's not being laughed at.

And I'll take Magic over Bron without thinking about it.

Magic and Bron is far closer than Bron and Charles. Actually I'll happily take Bron over Magic. Unlike you I don't wear some heavily nostalgia-tilted glasses.

Try taking them off at some point - you may actually begin to enjoy the game today without feeling the urge to disparage its players at every opportunity.

[andgar923]

Magic and Bron is far closer than Bron and Charles. Actually I'll happily take Bron over Magic. Unlike you I don't wear some heavily nostalgia-tilted glasses.

Try taking them off at some point - you may actually begin to enjoy the game today without feeling the urge to disparage its players at every opportunity.

Ummm.. nope, it aint nostalgia glasses.

They do things Bron doesn't come close to doing. Whatever advantages Bron has he doesn't do them significantly better.

The only argument one can make is Bron is a better defender. But Magic's defensive IQ is better than Bron's, Bron is just more athletic. Magic makes up for his one on one (aka guarding small point guards) defensive weaknesses with his high IQ stepping into lanes, disrupting the offense in the same fashion that Bron does.

Whatever advantages Bron has over Charles on the defensive end, Chuck makes up for with rebounding and intensity. Charles' intensity is unrivaled by Bron and can leave a bigger impact.

They're not nostalgia glasses, they're remembering how great they were and not being blind to Bron's obvious weaknesses.

There aren't many players I would take over Bron, past or present.

But Magic in a heartbeat, Chuck depending on what I need.

[Jameerthefear]

Ummm.. nope, it aint nostalgia glasses.

They do things Bron doesn't come close to doing. Whatever advantages Bron has he doesn't do them significantly better.

The only argument one can make is Bron is a better defender. But Magic's defensive IQ is better than Bron's, Bron is just more athletic. Magic makes up for his one on one (aka guarding small point guards) defensive weaknesses with his high IQ stepping into lanes, disrupting the offense in the same fashion that Bron does.

Whatever advantages Bron has over Charles on the defensive end, Chuck makes up for with rebounding and intensity. Charles' intensity is unrivaled by Bron and can leave a bigger impact.

They're not nostalgia glasses, they're remembering how great they were and not being blind to Bron's obvious weaknesses.

There aren't many players I would take over Bron, past or present.

But Magic in a heartbeat, Chuck depending on what I need.

You seriously have to be trolling.

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQjy...=466.558907379

This game shows off a bit of what they could both do.

Some of those post moves by both players :lowdown:

Before I was an MJ stan I was a huge Magic fan, and Barkley was the one player that I feared the most as a Bulls fan. He controlled the game in so many ways and beat you with speed and power like no other player ever.

[andgar923]

You seriously have to be trolling.

You never saw Chuck or Magic play, STFU

[andgar923]

[COLOR="Red"]Peak for peak Lebron is better than either Magic or Barkley. [/COLOR]Magic at least is close. There is absolutely zero argument for Barkley over Lebron. Like not even close to one either.

Why?

Because 'stats' say so?

Even then, we can go down the list of stats and they both have advantages over Bron.

They simply could do everything that Bron can do as good or almost as good, yet they both could do things that he couldn't by a significant margin.

This argument that Bron is far superior is a joke. We're talking about Magic easily in most people's top 5 not some scrub.

Charles has an argument as a top 3-5 power forward of all time! The power forward position is one of the most stacked positions of all time. But what makes him impressive isn't that he's a 6'8 beast, but a 6'4 monster athlete. He competed in one of the toughest eras for bigs in the toughest conferences, not the cream puff shit that Bron's competed in for his entire career.

So to be real, it aint as clear cut on who the better player is. Bron is def one of the top 10 all time and the best of his era, but he's not that clear cut when compared to Magic the GOAT PG and Chuck a top 5 PF.

[Round Mound]

I dunno about being a better passer, if anything they're very close.

Bron's role was to be a playmaker, but Chuck saw the floor just as well and was perhaps better at reading and reacting (something I've criticized Bron for many times).

Like MJ and Magic, Chuck saw the double and triple teams before they materialized and made quick strikes, didn't pound the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited, and pounded the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited..... that sort of quick read and reaction time is very underrated and is a big component in being a great passer.

If Chuck was asked to be a distributor there is no doubt that he could average just as many assists as Bron.

True

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

[andgar923]

True

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

Which is why he was hard to double down low. He was simply a GREAT passer so it was hard for teams to fully commit. Now, that isn't to say he didn't get doubled because playing that close to the basket (specially then) it's easy to get doubled. But teams still respected his passing, and he could hit you in so many different ways.

But what's impressive is how quickly he saw and adjusted, that's what matters the most. Because any player can eventually pass, but there isn't many that can read the defense and adjust in the blink of an eye.

Bron is a great passer under certain conditions. He has some weaknesses (when compared to the all time greats) when it comes to passing that Chuck didn't.

People can go ahead and bitch all they want, it doesn't change facts. It aint revisionist or nostalgia when the proof is there.

[andgar923]

True

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

dat pass from chuck to Chambers at 1:05
Dat pass to Majerle at 1:55 on a break

[Round Mound]

Charles Barkley > Karl Malone. Period!

[Dragonyeuw]

Just as an orchestrator, Magic had the ball whipping around in the half-court, not nearly as much pounding the air out of the ball. That style transcended through the entire team. In transition, no comparison in terms of the entire team being a threat to score, Lebron no doubt is a more powerful finisher but just as a creator for his other 4 teammates, Magic is peerless. Everything else though, Lebron is ahead of Magic and simply impacts the game on both ends in a way Magic never did. Who I'd take depends on the makeup of the team, I'm inclined to say with 'average' talent, Lebron's 'fill in the blanks' skillset allows him to do more with less. A roster with star talent, based off what I've seen, Magic's the better pick to run such a team.

[andgar923]

Just as an orchestrator, Magic had the ball whipping around in the half-court, not nearly as much pounding the air out of the ball. That style transcended through the entire team. In transition, no comparison in terms of the entire team being a threat to score, Lebron no doubt is a more powerful finisher but just as a creator for his other 4 teammates, Magic is peerless. Everything else though, Lebron is ahead of Magic and simply impacts the game on both ends in a way Magic never did. Who I'd take depends on the makeup of the team, I'm inclined to say with 'average' talent, Lebron's 'fill in the blanks' skillset allows him to do more with less. A roster with star talent, based off what I've seen, Magic's the better pick to run such a team.

you yourself stated that Magic's passing abilities are contagious.

If you added Magic to the Cavs right now, you're saying they won't be able to be even better?

You stated Bron pounds the shit outta the ball, which we've all seen makes the offense stagnant. Now imagine Magic slicing down the defense with precision making Love an actual post player, getting Kyrie and Smith good looks, and the ball is just moving and grooving... imagine how much more effective the CAvs would be?

Same scenario...

Add Magic to the Heat and it's no contest.

Wade is a great and willing passer in his own right, Bosh was an all star franchise post player. Imagine Wade cutting, Bosh in the post with the ball zipping from side to side, inside outside instead of the pound dribble pound pound Bron style? heat would be nearly unstoppable in today's era.

I can't for the life of me see Bron with the Lakers.

Kareem would be shooting hook shots from the 3pt line, along with Worthy and everyone else. Isolations with Bron that would take up 20 seconds.

Bron simply doesn't have the same IQ as Magic, not even close to be honest. Offensively Magic was simply better. He was able to break down the defense and slide into seams, read and react before the defense knew what they wanted to do, post up was superior than anything Bron will ever dream of.

Magic>>> Bron

[Dragonyeuw]

you yourself stated that Magic's passing abilities are contagious.

If you added Magic to the Cavs right now, you're saying they won't be able to be even better?

You stated Bron pounds the shit outta the ball, which we've all seen makes the offense stagnant. Now imagine Magic slicing down the defense with precision making Love an actual post player, getting Kyrie and Smith good looks, and the ball is just moving and grooving... imagine how much more effective the CAvs would be?

Same scenario...

Add Magic to the Heat and it's no contest.

Wade is a great and willing passer in his own right, Bosh was an all star franchise post player. Imagine Wade cutting, Bosh in the post with the ball zipping from side to side, inside outside instead of the pound dribble pound pound Bron style? heat would be nearly unstoppable in today's era.

I can't for the life of me see Bron with the Lakers.

Kareem would be shooting hook shots from the 3pt line, along with Worthy and everyone else. Isolations with Bron that would take up 20 seconds.

Bron simply doesn't have the same IQ as Magic, not even close to be honest. Offensively Magic was simply better. He was able to break down the defense and slide into seams, read and react before the defense knew what they wanted to do, post up was superior than anything Bron will ever dream of.

Magic>>> Bron

Defensively is where Bron makes the difference, now how much of a difference compared to any edge Magic would have running those clubs, in terms of net results, is only something we can speculate on. Maybe I'm being prisoner of the moment, but when I think of Lebron coming from nowhere to block Iguodola's shot in game 7, that's just a dynamic that Magic wouldn't be able to bring to a team.

Now, in terms of playing with 'star' teammates, his style would blend better with someone like Wade, because Bron and Wade had many of the same attributes which made the pairing redundant at first. It was really when Wade relegated to supporting status from age/injuries that they reached their potential. But prime Magic and 2011 Wade are a more natural pairing, because that 'my turn' dynamic wouldn't be in play, they'd feed off each other much better. Magic would maximize Wade's already present off-ball skills while willingly taking a secondary scoring role. Bosh wouldn't be relegated to having to shift his game to being a spot shooter, he'd be able to play more of the game we saw in Toronto, facing up at the elbow and using his speed/agility against opposing Power forwards, and he'd be very effective on the break with Magic running down the middle.

[raprap]

LeBron would've been much more effective in the 80's