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Old 11-07-2014, 08:22 AM   #31
kurple
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

was roundmound always this shitty a poster?
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:53 AM   #32
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballinhun8
No. You would say "they are three of the greatest players of all time.


Greatest of All Time means one person.


Going by this, there's no reason why this person has to be an athlete/player.

GOAT = Singular
3 GOAT = Plural. "3 greatest of all time". What can't you get?

And, like someone else mentioned, Bill Russell. Also, Kareem, since the image was confident enough to list Jordan's pre-NBA accolades.
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Old 11-07-2014, 09:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derivative
Significant #1 accomplishments:

#1 all time final MVPs: 6

#1 all-time regular season scoring leader: 30.1 ppg

#1 all-time playoff scoring leader: 33.3 ppg


#1 all time regular season PER: 27.91

#1 all time playoff PER: 28.60

#1 all time regular season WS/48: 0.2505

#1 all time playoff WS/48: 0.2553

#1 all time MVP award shares: 8.138

#1 alltime regular season scoring titles: 10

#1 alltime playoff scoring titles: 10



Trivial #1 Accomplishments:

#1 alltime all-defensive first teams: 9

#1 alltime career playoff points: 5,987

#1 alltime playoff points in a game: 63

#1 alltime career regular season 30-point games: 562

#1 alltime career playoff 30-point games: 109

#1 alltime career playoff 40-point games: 38

#1 alltime career playoff 50-point games: 8

#1 alltime scoring average in a finals series: 41.0



Also notice how Jordan improves all his stats in the playoffs?







GOAT.
Didn't read the whole post thoroughly. But the bolded are all basically the same thing. If a player lead the league in scoring 10 times, odds are he'll have highest career. If a player is best scorer in RS, odds are he'll be the best in the post season.

Along the same lines, I don't like duplication of RS and PO. More often than not, stats will be incredibly similar. Until someone does a breakdown, showing how most great players fall well short of their RS marks in any category, I'll maintain that belief.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:16 AM   #34
Psileas
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

You gotta love how the categories where Jordan isn't the best in both regular season and playoffs are called "trivial", playoff 30, 40, 50 pointers are called "trivial", while, at the same time, scoring titles are called "important", made-up stats like PER are called "important" and MVP win shares, which absolutely cannot translate the same through all eras are also called "important". Let me guess: Regular season MVP's belong to the "trivial" category.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:37 AM   #35
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

I dont think it's fair to lump in MJ with WC. Seeing as nobody alive today saw WC play and there's nothing left to prove that he actually did what he did. There can be a modern era GOAT, which is MJ and a pre-modern era GOAT which can be WC. Similar to baseball where the dead ball era exists.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:43 AM   #36
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundMoundOfReb
No it isn't.

"Top 3 greatest of all time." There is nothing wrong with that sentence.

there is something wrong with that sentence. Change 3 to 15 or maybe 10.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:47 AM   #37
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

wilt or jordan is the goat imo.

put wilt with decent coaching and in any era, and he would dominate and reel off rings.

in today's game for example, what does anthony davis do, that a prime wilt wouldn't do three-fold?
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:53 AM   #38
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
wilt or jordan is the goat imo.

put wilt with decent coaching and in any era, and he would dominate and reel off rings.

in today's game for example, what does anthony davis do, that a prime wilt wouldn't do three-fold?
Why does Wilt have a better case than Russell or Kareem in your opinion?

Not that I have a problem with your stance. Didn't get to watch any of the 4 at their peaks (started watching in 92-93), so all I can do is try and go back and watch as much tape as possible.
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:27 AM   #39
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
Why does Wilt have a better case than Russell or Kareem in your opinion?

Not that I have a problem with your stance. Didn't get to watch any of the 4 at their peaks (started watching in 92-93), so all I can do is try and go back and watch as much tape as possible.
wilt didn't accumulate rings like those guys specifically because he had to deal with an 8-team league, where one of those teams was a literal dream team (7 HOF's) that held a monopoly on rings - wilt had to play the greatest team of all time (those celtics won 8 rings in a row).

when kareem came into the league, those celtics were long gone, and the league's talent was more diluted by more teams - each team was weaker on average than each team in the 8-team league had been, which enabled a player of kareem or wilt's stature to have a greater impact.

it's easy to underestimate how tough an 8-team league is.

imagine if today's NBA was made of the top 8 teams - For example, let's just say San Antonio, OKC, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Memphis, and Clippers.... that's it... and one of those teams - let's say OKC - had 7 HOF's on the team... it doesn't matter who you are, your ring total will be suppressed under this environment.... imagine having to play a 7 HOF, Thunder team 15 times per regular season..
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Old 11-07-2014, 11:33 AM   #40
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

and yet not #1 all time. it's a good thing he played in a weak era and retired before Kobe reached his peak, otherwise he'd be completely exposed as a homeless mans Kobe, if not already.

Last edited by G0ATbe : 11-07-2014 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubeta
In many of those same criterias LeBron is top 3

So is LeBron already a top 3 GOAT?

In terms of individual overall ability to actualy play ball (talent/skill/production/domination etc.) YES........

In terms of accolades (rings/fmvps/mvps), NO.... which is not something any of these categories OP mentioned talks about....
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:16 PM   #42
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by G0ATbe
and yet not #1 all time. it's a good thing he played in a weak era and retired before Kobe reached his peak, otherwise he'd be completely exposed as a homeless mans Kobe, if not already.

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Old 11-07-2014, 12:22 PM   #43
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk

In terms of talent/skill/production/domination, YES (Lebron is top 3 OAT)..

In terms of accolades (rings/fmvps/mvps), NO....

he is isn't top 3 in the bolded areas....

kareem, jordan, bird, magic and many others had more skill, while wilt, jordan, shaq and others dominated more.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:28 PM   #44
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ball
wilt didn't accumulate rings like those guys specifically because he had to deal with an 8-team league, where one of those teams was a literal dream team (7 HOF's) that held a monopoly on rings - wilt had to play the greatest team of all time (those celtics won 8 rings in a row).

when kareem came into the league, those celtics were long gone, and the league's talent was more diluted by more teams - each team was weaker on average than each team in the 8-team league had been, which enabled a player of kareem or wilt's stature to have a greater impact.

it's easy to underestimate how tough an 8-team league is.

imagine if today's NBA was made of the top 8 teams - For example, let's just say San Antonio, OKC, Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Portland, Memphis, and Clippers.... that's it... and one of those teams - let's say OKC - had 7 HOF's on the team... it doesn't matter who you are, your ring total will be suppressed under this environment.... imagine having to play a 7 HOF, Thunder team 15 times per regular season..
My thoughts on each:

Russell - Thing is, he had a quality supporting cast, but I don't think it was as good as one would think based on 7 HOFers. How many were dominant defensive players? His teams were always best in the league by a long shot in DRtg (and were shit before and after), and mediocre to poor in ORtg. His teams were better than Wilt's, but Wilt had better squads while with the Sixers and Lakers than Russ did at the same time.

Kareem - In terms of physical talent, he looks like a beast. Most of the tape I've seen on him is during the 80s Lakers dynasty. But he was an absolute monster during the 70s. Maybe the GOAT offensive skillset for a bigman during the second half of the decade, and maybe the most mobile legitimate 7 footer during the first half (tremendous on the defensive end during this period). Most people making cases for him as an all-time great point to his longevity, but I think he had a legitimately dominant peak.

I'm trying to watch all of the tape of him in his prime (70-80). Crazy how good he looks.
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Old 11-07-2014, 12:41 PM   #45
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Default Re: Here are the things Jordan are #1 all time at

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
In terms of individual overall ability to actualy play ball (talent/skill/production/domination etc.) YES........

In terms of accolades (rings/fmvps/mvps), NO.... which is not something any of these categories OP mentioned talks about....

in terms of skills/talent/production/dominance

i would say he is a top 3 talent all time, and top 3 production all time (the raw stats and advanced stats do show).
But skills and dominance wise he isnt top 10. Especially skills, where he's probably about top 30 all time.

So overall, when you combine all those things with the rings and accolades, he's hovering around top 13. Maybe 10.
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