Now in Feb, is LeBron James maybe the 2010-11 NBA MVP?

[ginobli2311]

I don't know. Jordan was worth 8 wins(55 to 47) when he retired. Jordan was the moving piece. Lebron I would say is worth around 4 extra wins(extra talent often doesnt mean vastly more regular season wins- the Cavs record should be enough to show that). I think the Heat will win slighly over 60 games, maybe 62-63. If you account for their really bad start they seem to be on that pace.

in a perfect world...yes.

but the heat have lost haslem/miller for significant amounts of time and both wade and bosh have missed time.

i'm talking about this year. not what would happen in fantasy land with every heat player playing every game.

wade has already missed 4 games and has been less than 100% in many others. bosh has missed 4 games as well.

i just don't see this heat team this year winning more than 55 games without lebron.

with every player 100% for each game? i totally agree with your assertions. but that isn't reality and rarely happens in an nba season.

[cleveland]

they still going at it

[ginobli2311]

Fact also remains that very few teams (if any) had the top 2 players on their team, both in their primes, along with another top 15 All-Star player on their team. It evens it self out because this team is a powerhouse, best since the 80's Lakers. Again, Front line of LeBron (6-9 260lb Forward for christ sakes), Bosh, and Anthony (solid defender and rebounder) is not even close to the worst mate. I think you're reaching quite a bit on this one love.

we'll see what happens. i've never seen a team win a title without the ability to protect the paint and defensive rebound.

those are two huge weaknesses on the heat. and i'm not comparing the heat to an average team. i'm comparing them to the elite teams in the league. of course the heat's bigs don't look terrible to the average teams.

but when you compare them to the lakers/celtics/bulls/magic.....they are much worse imo.

and again. it doesn't mean the heat have no chance. i never said that. i just don't think they will win and it will be because of the play of their bigs.

like i said. we'll see what happen come playoff time. if i'm wrong....i'll be right here to admit it.

[Bandito]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

First of all, you are just making up numbers. There is no way you can tell how many wins these Lakers will have without Kobe just because you though of an imaginary number you just made up. Also the way the Heat are playing now they are going for 60, and there is no way Lebron is good for 10 wins just because of how awesome it is not if Wade has something to say about it. Because if I use your imaginary numbers, then Wade has the same case as Lebron, without Wade this Heat team is good for about 47 wins.

[jrong]

why? sometimes the excess talent doesnt always manifest itself in way more regular season wins. I don't think Wade would have any issue taking up the slack is Bron wasnt there. I also don't think Bosh would have any problem scoring more points if it was needed. I find nothing "hard to imagine" about a team 47 win team adding a 20/10 franchise big man, a coveted shooting 3 man and other better shoooters winning 10 more games then the year before.

Not to mention the fact that Z is 4" taller than Heat rotation center last year. That's right, JO was the Heat's tallest big last year at 6'11", and he was hurt so often that Wade often was doing it with 6'9" Anthony or 6'8" Haslem in the pivot. Wade should have been the #2 MVP vote recipient last year.

And on this team, Wade or (James) wins 60 or more without the other. I can't believe people think he could barely crack 50 giving him Bosh who is at least as impactful as Shaq in 06 (not 05 though), Mike Miller who is also better than any player Wade has had the last two years, Eddie House who along with Miller is a better shooter than anyone Wade had since Kapono, a reborn James Jones (where were you last year, JJ??), and a much bigger frontline.

LeBron deserves MVP, but it is not because people's fanciful projections of what the Heat would become without him. And it's also not because of an examination of the current state of the Cavs. The Cavs lost 15'5" worth of their two top centers, and they lost Delonte West, and the current Cavs team is playing without several of their important players who ARE still on the roster.

Is critical thinking a lost art?

[bisk]

I don't think there would be anything wrong should they give him the MVP if he keeps playing like this.

[YAWN]

i don't think the media will give him the award with wade playing like the second or third best player in the league...

If that is to be disregarded, then they need to go back and give shaq some MVPs. he got penalized in the MVP voting for having the 3rd best player in the league on his team...

Wade could get injured or hit a very rough patch to allow Lebron to make a run for it, but the same doors can open up for Wade. Either way I think having each other cancels them both out.

[ginobli2311]

First of all, you are just making up numbers. There is no way you can tell how many wins these Lakers will have without Kobe just because you though of an imaginary number you just made up. Also the way the Heat are playing now they are going for 60, and there is no way Lebron is good for 10 wins just because of how awesome it is not if Wade has something to say about it. Because if I use your imaginary numbers, then Wade has the same case as Lebron, without Wade this Heat team is good for about 47 wins.

but i never said lebron was good for 10 wins on this heat team. i said he's good for about 4 to 7 wins most likely.

let me clear up what i'm saying:

i think that kobe/wade/lebron should all be able to win the mvp. others are saying that lebron and wade should have no chance no matter what because of the team they play on. i think that is absurd logic because these same people are saying that kobe is a leading candidate for mvp.

how does that make sense when kobe's supporting cast is no worse than lebron's really....and if it is worse...its marginally worse. i keep hearing things like "wade won x number of games with players x y z. it doesn't work this way.

i could say the same thing. Gasol won 50 games as the best player on the grizzlies with less help than he would have with this lakers team and a much better coach.

again. it does not work that way.

if wade/kobe/lebron want to win mvp, they need to have great numbers and great team success. and by great team success i mean a noticeably better record than the other leading candidates.

for example:

if the bulls win 57 games this year. i don't see how kobe/wade/lebron can beat out rose unless they win 63 or more games. why? because rose leading the bulls with his circumstances of noah and boozer missing a ton of time to only a few less wins is more impressive.

but to say that lebron shouldn't even have a chance no matter what is just retarded. sorry.

[shortlunatic]

you and jacks3 are missing the point.

the heat would win at most 55 games without lebron. at most. what would the lakers win without kobe? i'd say around 47 to 52 games.

don't forget that the lakers have a huge coaching advantage. gasol is better than bosh. then you throw in bynum and odom and fisher and brown....etc.

I call bull. I think they win less. I still don't think Gasol has what it takes to bring this team to the level it was at prior to Kobe. Like I said earlier, Kobe hasn't been playing a great season this year, and as a result, this team is struggling to find wins. Could you imagine how bad they would be if you pulled him off all together? To me this proves how important Kobe is to his team.

but again...so what?

so lets say the lakers would win 47 games without kobe and the heat would win 53 without lebron. that 6 game difference somehow disqualifies lebron...but not kobe?????

that doesn't make sense at all.

I would like to see where in my post I said this. My post was simply regarding your comment on The lakerser w/o kobe over the heat without lbj. Reading is essential. Practice.

LOL at the idea that lebron's supporting cast is now much better than kobe's. i find this ****ing laughable.

LOL

I never said that either, I said quite the opposite. The Lakers are a better team (meaning quality of players and ability to succed individually), but the Heat are better built (meaning with the current roster, their team is built around the players they have in a way that allows them to succed in ways that other teams won't.) My post was right in the sense of Wade and Bosh being one of the best duos in the league. Please tell me how one of the better little man big man combos in the league can't thrive off a roster with perimeter shooters?

There are numerous people on here who say the same thing. Wade is a proven winner. Add a 20/10 guy like Bosh in to the roster along with a couple three point shooters and you are a legit team.

Low basketball IQ Midget. I F*cked your mom last night

Lol nice. Don't know if this was you, but the immaturity is entertaining.