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Old 10-16-2019, 06:39 PM   #16
~primetime~
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen
Carbine is on the money. Peters hasn't been good.

Prime... https://www.pff.com/pff-player-grades



The PFF grading metric is entirely opinion based.
No the vast majority of those grades simply come from did the WR catch it or not...did he give up a big play, etc. There are some judgment calls but for the most part there isn't much space to fudge it up. Thats why there are always random ass names in PFF lists, they are ranking on what the metrics say and not just throwing big names up there.

Here is an another analyst outside of PFF who charted him top-10:

https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/sta...335236096?s=19
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

If he was considered an elite player playing at that level who is still young and by all accounts keeping his nose clean off the field, they'd have just paid him.

This deal says they think upgrading to Ramsey was like upgrading from an average corner to an elite corner. Otherwise what's the point?

Again,they've had him in house for a year and 1/2

They know better than anyone if he is good.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Thats what I'm saying...Rams have done bad here

https://fansided.com/2019/10/15/marc...mpression=true

^^^ This guy's theory is that Peters is a nightmare in the locker room


I've also read the theory that a team in LA just wants big flashy names
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Old 10-17-2019, 07:18 PM   #19
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
No the vast majority of those grades simply come from did the WR catch it or not...did he give up a big play, etc. There are some judgment calls but for the most part there isn't much space to fudge it up. Thats why there are always random ass names in PFF lists, they are ranking on what the metrics say and not just throwing big names up there.

Here is an another analyst outside of PFF who charted him top-10:

https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/sta...335236096?s=19
It's the same thing they're doing in baseball for defensive scores. Some guys are watching video and decide if the play should have been made. PFF is trying to fool you into thinking their rankings are quantifiable hard data by assigning a number to it...

There's gonna come a time where you're gonna hate all the credibility you've instilled in them when they don't line up with what you see on the Cowboys.
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Sheen
It's the same thing they're doing in baseball for defensive scores. Some guys are watching video and decide if the play should have been made. PFF is trying to fool you into thinking their rankings are quantifiable hard data by assigning a number to it...

There's gonna come a time where you're gonna hate all the credibility you've instilled in them when they don't line up with what you see on the Cowboys.
I'm with Carbine on PFF... they can only really tell you if a player is playing well or poorly. Theyre horrible if you're actually using them to rank players.

The way they rank CBs each play is they have general set of guidelines...INT probably a +2, giving up a pass over 25 yds -2, incompletion-1 maybe, Im guessing here but something like that. They do have judgment calls on some plays but if 10 PFF workers all ranked the same CB I guarantee they'd all be scored similarly.

For the CB position in particular, I feel like these metrics are vital info if you're trying to gauge accurately. Even if you watched every Rams game, Peters is off the screen the majority of the time. It's also flat out impossible to keep mental note of every snap of every CB.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:54 AM   #21
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

All-22 is available to anyone. Corners can be seen every play quite visibly
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:28 AM   #22
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

I am almost never a fan of giving up multiple high end picks in exchange for an expensive player, and even if Ramsey is the best corner in the league I still dont like this trade. If the Rams were one elite corner away from being superbowl favorites then maybe this would make sense, but thats clearly not the case.

Something that often gets overlooked when people talk about these trades is opportunity cost - while the players the Rams would have drafted with those picks are part of that cost, the portion of opportunity cost that is typically ignored is the extra cap space and flexibility that a team has with two rookie contracts instead of one superstar deal... so really this trade is not just Ramsey for picks, but potentially also a free agent or two. The Rams dont exactly have a lot of depth, I think two first rounders plus a free agent or two would have benefitted them a lot more than 1 elite corner.

Also in terms of the division this move makes zero sense to me. None of the teams in the division have a dominant WR1 like Julio or Michael Thomas that can take over a game... the closest thing would probably be Tyler Lockett and the Seahawks are perfectly happy to ignore Lockett all game anyway. Who is Ramsey going to guard on the 9ers? Dante Pettis?

Last edited by Nanners : 10-18-2019 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:44 AM   #23
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

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Originally Posted by Nanners
I am almost never a fan of giving up multiple high end picks in exchange for an expensive player, and even if Ramsey is the best corner in the league I still dont like this trade. If the Rams were one elite corner away from being superbowl favorites then maybe this would make sense, but thats clearly not the case.

Something that often gets overlooked when people talk about these trades is opportunity cost - while the players the Rams would have drafted with those picks are part of that cost, the portion of opportunity cost that is typically ignored is the extra cap space and flexibility that a team has with two rookie contracts instead of one superstar deal... so really this trade is not just Ramsey for picks, but potentially also a free agent or two. The Rams dont exactly have a lot of depth, I think two first rounders plus a free agent or two would have benefitted them a lot more than 1 elite corner.

Also in terms of the division this move makes zero sense to me. None of the teams in the division have a dominant WR1 like Julio or Michael Thomas that can take over a game... the closest thing would probably be Tyler Lockett and the Seahawks are perfectly happy to ignore Lockett all game anyway. Who is Ramsey going to guard on the 9ers? Dante Pettis?

They don't have the draft capital or the cap room to fix the interior line and add to their front 7 on defense. Pass rushers get paid. Next season isn't looking good. Whitworth is leaving or retiring. Blythe is FA. Brockers, Littleton and Fowler can leave too.

... except one minor argument at the last part. Ramsey's addition does more than lock down a #1. It unties Wade's hands from being locked into calling zone coverages. It keeps the door open for a playoff berth while Talib is out.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:47 AM   #24
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

They're going to play against Adams and Thomas in the playoffs most likely. Zach Ertz would see Ramsey a bit. Cooper if the Cowboys make it.

What you'd like to see happen is Ramsey Takes away the #2 WR and you can double team the #1 WR all game. That's what Belichick does apparently with Gilmore.
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Old 10-18-2019, 11:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~primetime~
I'm with Carbine on PFF... they can only really tell you if a player is playing well or poorly. Theyre horrible if you're actually using them to rank players.

I don't want to speak for the dude. Is that carbine's position? He's telling you that Peters hasn't been good. Trust what you see with your own eyes. You're saying he has because of PFF rankings. How are you with him?
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Old 10-18-2019, 12:45 PM   #26
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

I'm all out on PFF these days. There were way too many games last year where they would have a high or low grade on a Colts player and I go back and watch the game again focusing on the players and I feel they had the complete opposite grade of what PFF has.

PFF used to be a cool place. The early days. They spread themselves out way too far though. It's still a cool Football website but not for these grades.
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Old 10-18-2019, 02:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

You literally said earlier this season that PFF can only tell you who is playing well and who is playing poorly. When we were debating Dak vs Wentz. Youve stated that in past seasons too.

I agree with that stance...I think it'd be difficult as hell to suck yet somehow still have great metrics over a coarse of many games.

I guess now that PFF stats show Peters ISN'T playing poorly you're suddenly done with that view...

Look...Others outside of PFF have also charted Peters as top-10. Maybe you should consider the possibility that he hasn't been all that bad. You want to give cred to the Rams org for ditching him...how about giving some cred to the Ravens for obtaining him.
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

I remember that in the QB thread because I was him for his change

Quote:
Re: Who is the best Quarterback in the league ( im trying to see who's voting for trump)
PFF has Mahommes ranked 6th.

It's time to stop using them as proof of anything. They're not what they used to be and even if their prime of doing what they do, it was only a good outline of who was playing well and who wasn't.

Which is not what you're telling us he literally said
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Old 10-18-2019, 04:49 PM   #29
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

https://twitter.com/JohnMiddlekauff/...07699627495424

Quote:
John Middlekauff
‏Verified account @JohnMiddlekauff
Oct 15

Twitter thinks Marcus Peters is a lot better than the nfl does
60 replies 137 retweets 875 likes

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Peters is getting graded favorably by a lot of people because Weddle is getting all the attention for being that damn bad. It's easy to overlook everything Peters has done good or bad up to the point where Weddle shows why he should retire already.
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Old 10-18-2019, 05:25 PM   #30
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Default Re: Ramsey the Ram

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
They're going to play against Adams and Thomas in the playoffs most likely. Zach Ertz would see Ramsey a bit. Cooper if the Cowboys make it.

What you'd like to see happen is Ramsey Takes away the #2 WR and you can double team the #1 WR all game. That's what Belichick does apparently with Gilmore.
https://twitter.com/mlombardiNFL/sta...61172004114432

Quote:
Michael Lombardi
‏Verified account @mlombardiNFL
Oct 15

The Rams need to put Ramsey on the second best receiver every week and double the best. If they donít the number two of most teams will always be better than the Rams second corner.
58 replies 65 retweets 553 likes

Yep.
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