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Old 09-03-2006, 01:04 AM   #1
final.wrath
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Default Sorry To Burst Your Bubble Chicago

You guys are all acting like Ben Wallace is KG or Duncan when in reality your only getting half the package. Bens a great defender but huge offensive liability. Get ready for your post players (or lack therof) to be double teamed because Ben poses very little offensive threat and does not need to be guarded man to man. Yes your defense is getting better, but your offense is getting worse.

And thats bad. Defense doesn't win championships anymore guys. Only one team has won a championship in the last 10 years that didn't have a super-duper-star like Wade or James or Shaq. That team was the Detroit Pistons. And that was before the rules changed.

People would rather see Kobe score 81 points than a team play all-around good team defense. The rules reflect that. That's why Wade dominated the finals and thats why James almost beat the Pistons single-handedly. So why are the Bulls moving back in time? Unless the rules go back to being defensively oriented, I don't see the Bulls winning any championships in the near future. You think you can compete with James and Wade? Can anyone?

Next year will be the test to see if good team offense can beat the superstar's isolation offenses. Or maybe the soloution is in zone defense. Who knows. We'll wait and see next year, but in the meantime don't get your hopes up too much.
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Old 09-03-2006, 01:56 AM   #2
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I agree with what you say, we wont win a championship until somebody who can put up points in the post comes along. But we had no post presence last year and did ok, Ben is an upgrade over Tyson plus there is PJ and thomas now, so we will do better but still not quite there. At least we are only one piece of the puzzle away from contending, its nice to be so close.
My prediction if we go the whole year with this roster, we finish 4th to 6th in the east. I would rather have a balanced team of Kirk, Ben and Luol then just a wade, or just Lebron.

But you are wrong about defense not winning championships anymore, of course it does.

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Old 09-03-2006, 08:00 AM   #3
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Acutually we do have a post-player and yet the offseason is not over . Paxson could trade Michael Sweetney for a better post-player which i feel will happen.

i really think Paxson is looking at getting one maybe not someone as good as KG, Tim Duncan, or Elton Brand as of right now but their are some that people disagree with me about getting but im sure Paxson has someone in mind.

I just really think it might involve Michael Sweetney, Malik Allen, Viktor Khryapa, Martynas Andriuskevicius, and our 2007 picks. I know it seems like im trading junk players but Michael Sweetney and the picks changes things.

Paxson is not dumb he tried to get KG a post-player, Al Harrington a post-player. He knows we need a post-player better than Michael Sweetney and im sure he will get one. The reason i believe this will happen is because he past up on 2 post-players in the draft Shelden Williams and LaMarcus Aldridge which is a big risk to not be looking to get one b4 the season starts. Paxson drafted the best player for our team and will hopefully find a post-player which is hard to get n the league since their r not many of them. Something is up that we do not know about.
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Old 09-03-2006, 12:01 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
You guys are all acting like Ben Wallace is KG or Duncan when in reality your only getting half the package. Bens a great defender but huge offensive liability. Get ready for your post players (or lack therof) to be double teamed because Ben poses very little offensive threat and does not need to be guarded man to man. Yes your defense is getting better, but your offense is getting worse.

And thats bad. Defense doesn't win championships anymore guys. Only one team has won a championship in the last 10 years that didn't have a super-duper-star like Wade or James or Shaq. That team was the Detroit Pistons. And that was before the rules changed.

People would rather see Kobe score 81 points than a team play all-around good team defense. The rules reflect that. That's why Wade dominated the finals and thats why James almost beat the Pistons single-handedly. So why are the Bulls moving back in time? Unless the rules go back to being defensively oriented, I don't see the Bulls winning any championships in the near future. You think you can compete with James and Wade? Can anyone?

Next year will be the test to see if good team offense can beat the superstar's isolation offenses. Or maybe the soloution is in zone defense. Who knows. We'll wait and see next year, but in the meantime don't get your hopes up too much.

You don't know much about basketball. Yes the NBA loves scoring, but defense is what got the Bulls to the playoffs for the past 2 years. Am I right or wrong? You say that the Bulls got WORSE offensively....how so?? We lost Chandler, Pargo, Harrington, Songaila, Piatkowski and Basden. What offense did we lose??? We added Wallace, Thomas, Brown, Sefolosha and you're saying that we got worse on offense??? We've gone from Tyson and Sweets setting picks for Gordon and Hinrich to Wallace and Brown setting picks for our shooters and you're saying we got worse??? We've gone from unproven guys getting moving picks called nearly every game..to two veterans with league respect. Like I said, you don't know much about basketball. You say that the Bulls need post scoring, correct??? I agree, however, it is not NECESSARY. It would be nice, but not necessary. WITHOUT post scoring the Bulls averaged more points a game than your beloved James and the Cavaliers last year. We also scored more points than Indiana, Detroit and San Antonio. Two of those teams won championships lately and Miami averaged ONE bucket more a game than we did. Even the all mighty Dallas Mavericks couldn't even average one bucket more the Bulls did last year. So, what is your point?? The Bulls have improved. Anyone who doesn't see that, doesn't know much about basketball. They beat the Heat twice last year in the playoffs and Miami went on to win it all. Oh and we had NO post player to provide consistent scoring. And you ask why Bulls fans are excited??? He's not KG or Duncan..but he is the Defensive Player of the Year! Only one team can win it all. We are not guaranteed to win it all, but we do feel we have a better team than we had last year. What more can you ask for??? In case you haven't noticed the WC of Basketball has been going on. Team USA just lost to Greece, a team with NO NBA players. I'd love to read why you think Team USA lost. That would be a treat!!

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Old 09-04-2006, 05:37 PM   #5
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team usa lost because their defense wasnt good enough. but thats fiba rules, which are geared towards defense, not nba rules. so theres your treat for you buddy.

and i'll tell you how your offense got worse. ben is a terrible offensive player. his presence on the floor makes it 4 on 5 on offense and that means one of those 4 is going to be double teamed. if he does get the ball he will usually miss or go to the line. and we know what happens when he goes to the line. especially if its a cluth situation, he's almost sure to miss. look at what happened to the pistons in the playoffs. honestly, ben hurt the pistons more than he helped. he was a turnover machine at the the line and he cant handle shaq like he thinks he can. he refused to play zone defense to try and stop wade or james and that resulted in the beginning of the end for detroit's playoff run.

yeah if you could snag a post player better than michael sweetney that would really help.
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Old 09-04-2006, 11:58 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
team usa lost because their defense wasnt good enough. but thats fiba rules, which are geared towards defense, not nba rules. so theres your treat for you buddy.

and i'll tell you how your offense got worse. ben is a terrible offensive player. his presence on the floor makes it 4 on 5 on offense and that means one of those 4 is going to be double teamed. if he does get the ball he will usually miss or go to the line. and we know what happens when he goes to the line. especially if its a cluth situation, he's almost sure to miss. look at what happened to the pistons in the playoffs. honestly, ben hurt the pistons more than he helped. he was a turnover machine at the the line and he cant handle shaq like he thinks he can. he refused to play zone defense to try and stop wade or james and that resulted in the beginning of the end for detroit's playoff run.

yeah if you could snag a post player better than michael sweetney that would really help.

So, you're saying that Tyson Chandler is a better offensive player than Ben Wallace? We are basically replacing Tyson with Ben. Tyson was horrible. He couldn't even hold on to the ball. He sucked at free throws also and he can't pass for his life. I still don't see how we get worse on offense. I agree with you that USA didn't have D, but you have to admit there offense was horrible also. They don't know how to run plays. They just ran a pressure D and relied on the fast break or breakaway. No matter what kind of rules are in place....athleticism will not always rule. Wade, James and Anthony are faster and can jump higher than most players in the WC. Rule changes don't change that fact. Just because they allow more contact doesn't change the fact that USA is stronger, faster and WAY more athletic. By the way...sorry about the "you don't know anything about basketball" ...I was just pissed!! lol I still feel that by replacing Tyson with Ben and Sweetney with P.J. Brown, I think we are better offensively. Check the stats..Brown has shot over 85% for the past 3 years from the free throw line. That is sick!!! Ben is equal to Tyson, but Ben will average more points than Tyson did. He can at least go up strong where Tyson can't. He's too weak. Sweets and Tyson suck from the line!!! Thanks for the reply.
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Old 09-05-2006, 12:17 AM   #7
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Tyson couldnt even catch the ball, Kirk found him on the pick and roll so many times only to have Tyson drop the ball those puny hands. He and Ben are both bad at the offensive end, but Ben is a little bit better. Our offense will get just a little bit better but not much, and our D will be awesome next year.
Pax is a smart man, he will start dealing during the season for sure I think, well i hope he does anyway.
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Old 09-05-2006, 02:15 AM   #8
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Defense doesn't win championships anymore? Hello :confused: ? Miami Heat played great D, San Antonio played even better D, score as many points you want there comes a point when you're gonna need to stop the other team.
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Old 09-05-2006, 07:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
You guys are all acting like Ben Wallace is KG or Duncan when in reality your only getting half the package. Bens a great defender but huge offensive liability. Get ready for your post players (or lack therof) to be double teamed because Ben poses very little offensive threat and does not need to be guarded man to man. Yes your defense is getting better, but your offense is getting worse.

And thats bad. Defense doesn't win championships anymore guys. Only one team has won a championship in the last 10 years that didn't have a super-duper-star like Wade or James or Shaq. That team was the Detroit Pistons. And that was before the rules changed.

People would rather see Kobe score 81 points than a team play all-around good team defense. The rules reflect that. That's why Wade dominated the finals and thats why James almost beat the Pistons single-handedly. So why are the Bulls moving back in time? Unless the rules go back to being defensively oriented, I don't see the Bulls winning any championships in the near future. You think you can compete with James and Wade? Can anyone?

Next year will be the test to see if good team offense can beat the superstar's isolation offenses. Or maybe the soloution is in zone defense. Who knows. We'll wait and see next year, but in the meantime don't get your hopes up too much.

people would rather see kobe score 81 points?
do you live on a farm?
you must live near corn fields
kobe could score 81 points a game and the lakers will still be garbage
how do the rules reflect that good all around basketball is out?
are these the same rules that make all new yorks offensive
treats non existent
this is chicago where nothings cute, we like it grimey, we get amped when we see hustle
i could give a damn about how many points you score on the mavs or the suns
chicago will be shutin em down
go widdle yourself a corncob pipe and take another hit of that dust
final wrath what a cheese d!ck
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Old 09-05-2006, 08:48 PM   #10
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thanks for your great contribution to the forum :stupid:

i guess theres no point to arguing this when you all want to beleive in ben so much.

and yes, the general television audience would rather watch a basketball game in which kobe bryant scores 81 points instead of a game in which the detroit pistons shut down the opposing team's offense. note the ratings leap last year.
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Old 09-06-2006, 12:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
thanks for your great contribution to the forum :stupid:

i guess theres no point to arguing this when you all want to beleive in ben so much.

and yes, the general television audience would rather watch a basketball game in which kobe bryant scores 81 points instead of a game in which the detroit pistons shut down the opposing team's offense. note the ratings leap last year.

I see your point Final.Wrath. I just don't agree with you. You gave reasons why you feel that way. I gave mine. Some guys were kinda harsh on here lol I just feel that Ben Wallace is better offensively than Tyson Chandler. Not sure if you watched many Bulls games but Tyson sucks on offense. He is actually WORSE than Ben. Tyson NEVER dunks with one hand because he can't. He has small hands believe it or not. Wierd if you ask me. SOOOO...he has to have two hands on the ball and he has to gather himself before going up THEN he gets fouled and misses as much as Ben does at the FT line. He's actually getting worse. The Bulls made the playoffs 2 years in a row soley on defense and team offense. They just added the Defensive Player of the Year to a team that was already a HELL OF A DEFENSE!!! Shouldn't they be even better defensively??? We also replaced Sweetney with PJ Brown, who like I said earlier...is a hell of a free throw shooter!!! Sweets sucks at ft's!!! So, I see a small upgrade on offense, don't you??? SMALL...not WOW..but SMALL upgrade on TEAM offense. I also see a HUGE improvement on defense with the 2 vets being added. Time will tell this tale. I, personally, don't see championship banners..but I see improvement and no excuse for under 50 victories. We beat Miami twice with Tyson and Sweetney guarding Shaq. Damn! lol At least now we can put Ben on him and have a SLIVER of a chance. Oh...what team are you a fan of???

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Old 09-06-2006, 04:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by final.wrath
thanks for your great contribution to the forum :stupid:

i guess theres no point to arguing this when you all want to beleive in ben so much.

and yes, the general television audience would rather watch a basketball game in which kobe bryant scores 81 points instead of a game in which the detroit pistons shut down the opposing team's offense. note the ratings leap last year.

i didn't say i believe in ben i think hes a killer add to the team but
i believe in the bulls, in chicago, in john paxson and scott skiles
we like to see hustle, something that lacks in the leage
the bulls let go of tim thomas because of it
in this leage people get paid for potential not skill and not heart
look at starbary, stevie francise, a.i. i'm not sayin their not good but they have no concept of team ball
screw 81 points the rest of the team only had 22 and they were playin the raptors theres no doubt 81 is insane but wheres the rest of the team
mj didn't become great untill he realized 5 on 1 isn't gonna work
steve kerr and john paxson put the last shot in, in two of those championships
every bull is willin to pass if theres a better option
and you didn't get my point that the general population is in po dunk nowhere
do you think the bulls give a damn about what the general population wants
the bulls wanted a ring the past two years they've got a good chance for one this year
your on the bulls forum sayin that defense doesn't matter because "the rules changed"
when the hell did that happen thats just stupid
put your wizard cap on and go play final fantasy in your moms basement with your 37 year old ass
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Old 09-06-2006, 10:24 AM   #13
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Television ratings dont win a damn championship. You think any1 liked watching the Spurs or Detroit winning. Well maybe more like detroit then the Spurs but they didnt have no 81 point scorers. They had Duncan, mr Fundamentals. Boring too watch but did the job better than any1, Pistons had a bunch of people that usually score less that 20 points a game on there starting line up, they won, pretty boring, but it works. The bulls now got there usual excitement from Gordon, Hinrich, Nocioni, Deng wit the added muscles and basketball knowledgable players of Wallace and Brown. And dont think its over just yet, Bulls know whats needed but You Final Wrath obviously dont have much of a clue. Im not even a Bulls fan and i'll tell you there gonna be a hell of alot better.
now for the final wrath
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:59 PM   #14
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Some of you guys need to learn a lot about basketball, Miami barely beat the bulls last, and i mean barely.
They will make it pat the second round this year definitly....
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:41 PM   #15
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wtf barely beating someone is 7 games within 5 points.....6 games qualifies as a solid beating.
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