Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-03-2006, 02:49 PM   #31
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,069
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
And in those 117 games he's still put up incredible #'s.

6th in AVG, 4th in OBP, 1st in Slugging, 1st in OPS in the NL (all ahead of Howard). Assuming he stays healthy the rest of the way, he'll still be around 140 games and that's no big loss. Him and Rolen are also pretty much the only thing keeping the STL lineup going. He's been a more efficient hitter and his totals will still have all that jazz by the end of the year. And if you want to look at some of the Sabermetric stats... he leads Howard and Beltran in VORP (value over replacement player), Runs Created and is behind only Beltran in Win Shares. Both play 1B as well and Pujols does it better. And since we all know writers love guys whose teams make the playoffs, it gives Pujols another edge.

Beltran is the other guy in the race. He's having a huge year offensively and plays a premium defensive position VERY well. Playing in NYC helps his case.

Ryan went yard again! How does Pujols do it better? Howard just made an amazing defensive grab just now. Get real, you arent serious about that. His defense is no better than Howard.

Arod team make the playoffs when the Texas Rangers won 71 games and finished 4th in the AL West as Arod won MVP? Curious.
GOBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 02:49 PM   #32
Heilige
An Icon Forever
 
Heilige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: location,location
Posts: 3,395
Heilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation here
Default

I'm feeling a little bored, so I'm going to fill in my imaginary NL MVP Ballot right now, all ten spots.

1. Albert Puljols
2. Carlos Beltran
3. Ryan Howard
4. Lance Berkman
5. Miguel Cabrera
6. Alfonso Soriano
7. Jose Reyes (Mr. Excitement)
8. Chase Utely
9. David Wright
10. Chris Carpenter


I think only including 3 mets was very big of me.
Heilige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 02:50 PM   #33
SCY
Put yr guns up
 
SCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HoustoN
Posts: 4,268
SCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputation
Default

Pujols is unquestionably the better player, but he missed too much time. Howard's a no-brainer.

Quote:
His defense is no better than Howard.

Okay, chill. Cut the bias.
SCY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 02:52 PM   #34
VCDrivesAPorscheToWork
Very good NBA starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,369
VCDrivesAPorscheToWork is considered somewhat coolVCDrivesAPorscheToWork is considered somewhat coolVCDrivesAPorscheToWork is considered somewhat cool
Default re:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlh1981
they've improved since the Abreu trade, which isn't a coincidence. Abreu is a heartless, gutless player. Other than the 5 game sweep over the Red Sox, he hasn't really helped make that team better



All Abreu does is give the Yankees a strong arm and a good glove at right field. plus he gets on base. that is his job description. that's all. plus he's younger than Sheffield.
VCDrivesAPorscheToWork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:02 PM   #35
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,367
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Ryan went yard again! How does Pujols do it better? Howard just made an amazing defensive grab just now. Get real, you arent serious about that. His defense is no better than Howard.
Because he's been a better fielder all year. Even the ESPN fielding stats (which aren't really the best) show it. Pujols has a better zone rating and range factor than Howard who is near the bottom in both among regular NL 1B's. When watching the games, it should be obvious that Pujols is far more athletic and his range allows him to get to way more balls in play.

Quote:
Arod team make the playoffs when the Texas Rangers won 71 games and finished 4th in the AL West as Arod won MVP? Curious.
Go back and look at ARod's competition that year. ARod was by far the best player in the league that year and there really weren't any contenders on the playoff teams. Manny Ramirez was the only close one.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:07 PM   #36
SCY
Put yr guns up
 
SCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HoustoN
Posts: 4,268
SCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputation
Default

Quote:
Both are even. Its not even an area anyone with a half workin brain should bring up! And you know this! Pujols has been moved from 3rd to OF to 1B. There is a damn good reason WHY. He isnt much of a defensive players just a remarkable offensive.

Uh, remember that one guy who hit 7 or 8 HR's a few years ago, think his name was Mark fkn McGwire? Then there was that uh, Tino Martinez guy, think he was an all-star a few times. Also, you might have heard of this Scott Rolen character that plays at 3B? MAYBE HE CHANGED POSITIONS OUT OF NECESSITY, KNUMBSKULL. Not because he has trouble fielding. When Tino left he moved into 1st base and stayed. He's a good fielder, GOOD ENOUGH TO MOVE POSITIONS IF NECESSARY. God, I hate when people can't get over thier biases.
SCY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:08 PM   #37
NoGunzJustSkillz
2015
 
NoGunzJustSkillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 14,139
NoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterNoGunzJustSkillz is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default ...

#52! I wonder if he's going to play the 2nd game?
NoGunzJustSkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:10 PM   #38
konex
3-time NBA All-Star
 
konex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 10,390
konex has an OK reputation so far
Default

Incredible...
konex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:13 PM   #39
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,069
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Because he's been a better fielder all year. Even the ESPN fielding stats (which aren't really the best) show it. Pujols has a better zone rating and range factor than Howard who is near the bottom in both among regular NL 1B's. When watching the games, it should be obvious that Pujols is far more athletic and his range allows him to get to way more balls in play.

Who the hell looks at defense that much when determining MVP? You do realize people mentioning it do so for thier own well being. Voters dont put much weight on the award unless there is a blatant difference. Tired of people telling me so and so is better on defense. Its close to being irrelevant.

Offensive stats and team wins are the majority weigh ins over defense. Especially at first base. Since when was that a hot spot for defensive finess?




Bonds won MVP and his defense later in his career wasnt that great. Still a strong arm but mobility? Limited as hell. So why did he win? His offensive stats is why. Lets cut the BS Qwi you know better. You know voting MVP has little to do with defensive ability unless you play "DH".


Quote:
Go back and look at ARod's competition that year. ARod was by far the best player in the league that year and there really weren't any contenders on the playoff teams. Manny Ramirez was the only close one.


Carlos Delgado. Now shut your font.




Ryan went YARD again.
GOBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:19 PM   #40
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,069
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCY
Uh, remember that one guy who hit 7 or 8 HR's a few years ago, think his name was Mark fkn McGwire? Then there was that uh, Tino Martinez guy, think he was an all-star a few times. Also, you might have heard of this Scott Rolen character that plays at 3B? MAYBE HE CHANGED POSITIONS OUT OF NECESSITY, KNUMBSKULL. Not because he has trouble fielding. When Tino left he moved into 1st base and stayed. He's a good fielder, GOOD ENOUGH TO MOVE POSITIONS IF NECESSARY. God, I hate when people can't get over thier biases.


Wrong he wasnt good at 3rd defensively. Why else did they aquire the best defensive 3rd basement in the game? His move to OF was laughable. 1B was the safest bet for him to play. Chipper Jones is another. These guys arent moving because they can, its because the team wants to upgrade the position that is critical they are occupying by adding a better defensive glove.

Stop using the lords name in vain mofo. And Pujols being better is cool, I was just fooling around. But its not at a point where the margin is considered "not even close". Its something we shouldnt even be arguing. Who has the best glove at 1rst base? Get real. No manager cares how fantastic they are just as long as they are good. Their BATS is what managers care for. Dont argue otherwise. You think pujols? You think great hitter on pace to shatter records. And a young player at that with nothing but time to do so. You never think nor include his glove.

So why now? Why in an MVP voting when voters dont give defense much weight? Pujols is better right now with the glove. Happy? Now you phucking admit that what I just admitted makes little to no difference in MVP voting.

*waits*
GOBB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:20 PM   #41
Heilige
An Icon Forever
 
Heilige's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: location,location
Posts: 3,395
Heilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation hereHeilige has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heilige
I'm feeling a little bored, so I'm going to fill in my imaginary NL MVP Ballot right now, all ten spots.

1. Albert Puljols
2. Carlos Beltran
3. Ryan Howard
4. Lance Berkman
5. Miguel Cabrera
6. Alfonso Soriano
7. Jose Reyes (Mr. Excitement)
8. Chase Utely
9. David Wright
10. Chris Carpenter


I think only including 3 mets was very big of me.


Does anyone disagree with this list?
Heilige is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:21 PM   #42
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,367
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Bonds won MVP and his defense later in his career wasnt that great.
No one was even close to Bonds in offensive production. No one. When you put up OPS's of 1.300+ you are getting the MVP even if you are the worst defensive player in the league.


Quote:
Carlos Delgado. Now shut your font.

Carlos Delgado... wasn't near as valuable as ARod. I'm a Jays fan and know this. Delgado was SLIGHTLY better in terms of offensive production but then you realize ARod was a Gold-Glove SS putting up those kind of #'s while Delgado was only a 1B (and a poor one at that) and it was a no brainer.


Quote:
So why now? Why in an MVP voting when voters dont give defense much weight? Pujols is better right now with the glove. Happy? Now you phucking admit that what I just admitted makes little to no difference in MVP voting.
It does though, especially if it looks really close between the players. That's why when you have an SS or C put up a huge year, it'll be look at in a higher regard rather than if a 1B or LF did it (see ARod's 2 MVPs, Pudge's one, and Barry Larkin in the recent past). And in this case since both play 1B, it's easy to compare their defensive abilities and it's obvious that Pujols is better there. Even in the definition of how MVP is to be selected it says right there that defense has to be considered (don't have the link on this handy but I've read it). I guess it comes to whether you think it's as close as I think it is between Pujols, Beltran and Howard overall.

Last edited by Qwyjibo : 09-03-2006 at 03:25 PM.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:26 PM   #43
SCY
Put yr guns up
 
SCY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: HoustoN
Posts: 4,268
SCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputationSCY has a terrific reputation
Default

Quote:
Wrong he wasnt good at 3rd defensively. Why else did they aquire the best defensive 3rd basement in the game? His move to OF was laughable.

He was adequate, which is what was asked of him. My point is that a manager, never, ever would play Howard somewhere besides 1B. Couldn't be done.

Quote:
So why now? Why in an MVP voting when voters dont give defense much weight? Pujols is better right now with the glove. Happy? Now you phucking admit that what I just admitted makes little to no difference in MVP voting.

I never mentioned it in accordance with MVP voting, I agree it doesn't matter in that regard, and I already said I'd give Howard the award.
SCY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:28 PM   #44
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,367
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Beltran will probably win it anyways unless he completely craps out in Sept.

Great offensive year and plays CF, he plays in NYC, and the Mets have the best record in the NL.


The funniest part will be when Ortiz is beaten out once again for the MVP by another Yankee (Jeter this time). I'm no Yankee fan but seeing this cap off a bad year for Boston would be hilarious.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2006, 03:29 PM   #45
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,069
GOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableGOBB is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Carlos Delgado... wasn't near as valuable as ARod. I'm a Jays fan and know this. Delgado was SLIGHTLY better in terms of offensive production but then you realize ARod was a Gold-Glove SS putting up those kind of #'s while Delgado was only a 1B (and a poor one at that) and it was a no brainer.

Get real Qwy, you're talkin out your ass here. Texas only won 71 games. How damn valuable was AROD? And these stats you are talkin bout werent that FAR apart as you make them sound. Only stat that jumps out is HR's. Arod gets gold gloves because of his name. Lets be realistic and STOP STOP STOP bringing that into an argument where it doesnt hold as much significant as you type it! Geeze when will you learn this that the MVP doesnt operate how your MIND thinks it should/does! Unfriggin real how you continue to spew the defense talks.

And how are you weighing how Arod was more valuable? Ryan Howard is CARRYING this team on his BACK! Who else is Qwy? Doesnt Ryan qualify as a player who not only has stats but is doing it on a team where he is carrying the team? I mean every reason Arod won it that year in 03 can be said the same for Ryan...Oops I forgot *insert your DEFENSE talk*


Lets open our eyes here for a bit.
GOBB is online now   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:51 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy