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Old 09-13-2008, 12:29 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

The thing is, even if he does start playing well, the Raptors are still going to have to trade him eventually. Not a knock against the guy because if he starts playing well then great for him but Toronto was one of the worst teams he could've joined in terms of fit.

The Raptors will do everything possible to keep Bosh and they'll be able to offer him more money than anyone else. Chances are that he will stay. Bargnani's qualifying offer will be at $8.5 million so to keep him long term, they would have to pay him AT LEAST that amount. That's a lot to be paying for a bench player since he will never be able to play beside Bosh for extended periods of time (if O'Neal isn't back).

I don't hate Bargnani (like many people believe) but am just so frustrated with the mess that was created by taking him 1st overall. Him playing as poorly as he has doesn't help but the scouting on him was so far off (thinking he could be a C alongside Bosh).
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Old 09-13-2008, 03:40 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

Originally Posted by power works
I wouldn't say he's gonna make or break the team.

To be more precise, I'd say even if Bargs played like last year, Raptors are still a 45-48 win team (assuming JO works out).

Bargs playing great --- like a 15+ ppg player, consistently solid 6th man, would make Raptors a 50-55 win team. An elite team.

That's the way I see things too. Bargs is more like an x-factor than a main determinant of whether we succeed or not. He'd be the unexpected bonusl.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

What really screwed us, if you really think about it, was the fact that we couldn't take Oden out of high school. I think the NBA might have specifically changed that rule just so GO, who will be the new "Shaqesque-big-personality-center" in Stern's ideal world, wouldn't end up on a Canadian team.

I mean, I find it hard to hate Bargnani because WE drafted him #1 Overall. He just isn't #1 Draft pick material. Look at the #1 draftees before him. Bogut, Dwight, Lebron, Yao Ming. And after him Oden, Rose. He clearly was never going to belong in that company. Hell, Roy and Gay probably won't be better than any of those players except possibly Bogut and Rose. As for Kwame, **** he's the most staggering case of bad scouting maybe in the history of professional sports, there is little chance that Bargs will have as embarrassing and irrelevant of a career as Kwame.

And really, it wasn't a very good draft. At all.

- Adam Morrison at #3 is a far bigger bust than Bargs because that pick was more important to the Bobcats future.

- Lamarcus Aldridge is showing promise, but he will probably never be an All-Star, which is what the top American big man prospect should be. Not a knock against Aldridge, he is the third best player in the draft, and a fringe All-Star PF, who will now be paired with a certain future-Superstar center who we should have been able to draft instead of Bargs, is not a bad thing for Portland to walk away with. Oh, and they got the best player in this draft as well. The man we should have drafted. But I'll get to him and his sole partner in relevance.

- Tyrus Thomas is another Stromile Swift or Gerald Green at this point, a freakishly athletic moron. Big bust, Bulls would be infinitely better off with Lamarcus, in fact him paired with Big Ben might have actually worked.

- Randy Foye has already missed most of a season with injury, and it doesn't look like he will ever really fit in with the Wolves, because he doesn't have PG skills.

- Shelden Williams = major bust for the Hawks at #5. How this butt-ugly scrub managed to woo AP's attractive and uber-talented sister is beyond me. I imagine personality and love might have helped, but god Shelden is ugly.

- Patrick O'Bryant at #9 for the GSWs. He ain't ever going to look like Amare at #9, let's put it that way.

- Mouhamed Sene? At #10? Yeesh, no wonder Seattle doesn't exist anymore.

- Paul Millsap at #47??? Hindsight is 20/20, but how the **** was he not a lottery pick given this plethora of mediocrity ahead of him? Hell, Millsap would probably be more useful to us than Bargs is!

- JJ Redick. Marcus Williams. Thabo Sefolosha. Josh Boone. Rodney Carney. Renaldo Balkman. Hilton Armstrong. Jordan Farmar. Craig Smith. Leon Powe. Cedric Simmons. Most of these guys are mediocre at best. Some are decent, but we certainly couldn't have drafted them over Bargs.

Now for the players that we definitely should have picked over Bargs (in order) : Brandon Roy. Rudy Gay. LaMarcus Aldridge.

And the players who would have really been a reach but would be more useful to us than Bargs currently is: Ronnie Brewer. Rajon Rondo. Daniel Gibson. Paul Millsap.

It was a WEAK draft. Comparable to the 2000 draft, seriously. The one rule we should have had in that draft is "NO POWER FORWARD." Seeing as there was no top center prospect or top PG prospect who could even be close to being considered a consensus #1 pick, and seeing as or wings were Mo Pete, Fred Jones, AP and Graham, we should have been looking for the best AMERICAN wing prospect, which would obviously have led us to one of Roy or Gay. Definitely not a 7'0 jump shooting Euro.

Last edited by A.M.G. : 09-13-2008 at 04:14 AM.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:15 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

Oden already said he was going to college, way before the draft. So it didn't matter about the rule change...
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Old 09-13-2008, 08:26 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

Originally Posted by jrcp3
You Guys Are All Dumb ..... He Was A First Overall Pick, You Are Excepted To Be The Best Thats Why You Are Chosen First Overall .... If You Can Live Up To The Hype You Are Considered A Bust ..... And Bargs By No Means Is Living Up To The First Overall Pick ..... I Hate Ppl Who Say " He Wasn't Suspose To Be A Superstar Or Allstar " Then We Should Of Traded The First Over All Pick ..... Just Think Guys Who Have Been Taken First Overall ..... Just Think ..... There Are More Superstars First Overall Then Bust First Overall .....

This thread isnt about a wasted #1 overall pick, its about how Bargs may or may not make or break this season.

We're not all Dumb as you stated, we know in hindsight it wasnt the best pick we could have made. We're just trying to make the best of it.

One other thing...I'd hate to see the posts here if Bargs gets traded to another team and just blossoms into an Allstar, when all he needed was a little more time. Talk about the disgust we'd have.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

A.M.G., good post.

But I don't buy into the anti Canadian NBA conspiracy theory. Stern and all the owners care mostly about money first, and the Raptors organization has certainly proven to be an asset to the league with respect to that.

It is unfortunate that the year Colangelo arrives at the helm of the Raptors we win the first overall pick in the draft and it happens to be a very weak draft. Their was no consensus # 1 pick, except after Colangelo made it clear he was taking Bargnani. I think the popular choice would have been Aldridge because of his Texas roots and friendship with Bosh. But as you stated their were some major busts that draft year and Bargnani is not the worst of them. Bargnani just happen to be the number 1 pick in a non consensus year. Also, brwnman was correct in stating that Oden had already declared another year of college ball.

And, as Oden goes, I would like to see him play a few games before I annoit him the second coming of the modern (or pre-historic) centres. And keep in mind that the way Portland is stacked, Oden could have a very easy transition into his first year and look a lot better then he really is.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bargnani Will Make or Break the Raptors!

Bargs is not a bust yet. Everyone forgets that he was the second best rookie. He was probably the 4th best sophmore, but that doesn't mean anything. Gotta have one more season to evaluate him.
Of course we would all prefer gay or roy. But going back to the draft Gay was questioned for on-court and off-court antics. He didn't have a spectacular college year and he fell to 7th for a reason. If we can say that BC was probably deciding between roy, bargs and aldridge. Than bargs seems like the best choice at the time. Aldridge looked the same then as now - a solid above average player who was already near his ceiling. Bargs was the biggest guy available and he could shoot from ANYWHERE and he could drive like a SF. It was just too enticing.

Roy would have been the best pick, but for some reason no one wants to take a 2g first overall (especially one that is undersized). The last one was iverson in 96 and they thought he would be a pg. Before that you have to go way back in the 80's (even MJ was passed over twice!). You could start a whole thread about 2g's that were undervalued. I personally thought they should have taken Morrison, wow am i glad they didn't. So still looking back Bargs looks like the right pick, unless you break the mold and take a smaller player.
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