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Old 09-07-2006, 12:43 PM   #61
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give some solid facts to back your theory

As opposed to all the "facts" supporting creating, which states that all people are descendants of Adam and Eve and therefore are all inbred. And even if we are all descended from Adam and Eve *stifles a laugh* that doesn't explain how different races of people came into being.

Neanderthals are extinct even though they were very similar to us. Lots of species become extinct. In fact we came very close to extinction due to a comet hitting the Earth a long time ago. Geneticits have shown that our population was once down to just a few thousand long after we had heavily populated the world.

There is plenty of evidence showing the missing links between apes and humans. However no amount of evidence will overcome the denial of creationists. They always try to attack the facts of evolution even though they don't have a shred of evidence supporting creation.

The whole idea of creation looks like something made up by a kid.

Last edited by tontoz : 09-07-2006 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by tontoz
Geneticits have shown that our population was once down to just a few thousand long after we had heavily populated the world.

they were almost right.....the population went from "heavy" to just a few when the great flood happened....they were almost there.

all these "facts" are there........give some of them.

i said previously that it takes faith in GOD to support my theory
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:18 PM   #63
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i said previously that it takes faith in GOD to support my theory
Here is just the tip of the iceberg on the history of human evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

The study of genetics has given even more evidence to evolution.

Your faith in God doesn't explain how all of us could descend from 2 people. Your faith in God doesn't explain how the different races came into being.

All your faith in God does is give you the ability to live in denial. You will not address either of the above two points because you know you can't. You prefer to live in denial.

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the population went from "heavy" to just a few when the great flood happened.

And the actual EVIDENCE shows that there was a major explosion at the same time the population dwindled. This nonsense about a boat carrying all these people and animals is laughable. How big would this boat have to be to carry all those animals, and people, and food, for such a long time?

LOL

Last edited by tontoz : 09-07-2006 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:10 PM   #64
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i really dont have the time to waste "re-hashing" this topic.....weve already had this discussion before and everyone time me or someone else on the creation side gives a point its never rebutaled. all those people? i can tell you dont even have any knowledge of the other side of your argument....you wouldnt know if i was right or wrong anyways. wikipedia? wow....good source


by the way........just for giggles i will answer you two questions...might take a minute though
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:25 PM   #65
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wikipedia? wow....good source

And what source would you consider a good source, other than the fairy tale in the Bible?
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:27 PM   #66
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According to the Bible, all humans on earth today are descended from Noah and his wife, his three sons and their wives, and before that from Adam and Eve (Genesis 1-11). But today we have many different groups, often called "races," with what seem to be greatly differing features. The most obvious of these is skin color. Many see this as a reason to doubt the Bible's record of history. They believe that the various groups could have arisen only by evolving separately over tens of thousands of years. However, as we shall see, this does not follow from the biological evidence.
The Bible tells us how the population that descended from Noah's family had one language and by living in one place were disobeying God's command to "fill the earth" (Genesis 9:1, 11:4). God confused their language, causing a break-up of the population into smaller groups which scattered over the earth (Genesis 11:8-9). Modern genetics show how, following such a break-up of a population, variations in skin color, for example, can develop in only a few generations. There is good evidence that the various people groups we have today have not been separated for huge periods of time.1

What Is a "Race"?

There is really only one race -- the human race. The Bible teaches us that God has "made of one blood all nations of men" (Acts 17:26). Scripture distinguishes people by tribal or national groupings, not by skin color or physical appearance. Clearly, though, there are groups of people who have certain features (e.g., skin color) in common, which distinguish them from other groups. We prefer to call these "people groups" rather than "races," to avoid the evolutionary connotations associated with the word "race."

All peoples can interbreed and produce fertile offspring. This shows that the biological differences between the "races" are not very great. In fact, the DNA differences are trivial. The DNA of any two people in the world would typically differ by just 0.2 percent.2 Of this, only 6 percent can be linked to racial categories; the rest is "within race" variation.


The variation in DNA between human individuals shows that racial differences are trivial. This genetic unity means, for instance, that white Americans, although ostensibly far removed from black Americans in phenotype, can sometimes be better tissue matches for them than are other black Americans.


Anthropologists generally classify people into a small number of main racial groups, such as the Caucasoid (European or "white"),3 the Mongoloid (which includes the Chinese, Inuit or Eskimo, and Native Americans), the Negroid (black Africans), and the Australoid (the Australian Aborigines). Within each classification, there may be many different sub-groups.

Virtually all evolutionists would now say that the various people groups did not have separate origins. That is, different people groups did not each evolve from a different group of animals. So they would agree with the biblical creationist that all people groups have come from the same original population. Of course, they believe that such groups as the Aborigines and the Chinese have had many tens of thousands of years of separation. Most believe that there are such vast differences between the groups that there had to be many years for these differences to develop.


One reason for this is that many people believe that the observable differences arise from some people having unique features in their hereditary make-up which others lack. This is an understandable but incorrect idea. Let's look at skin color, for instance.

What about SKIN COLORS?

It is easy to think that since different groups of people have "yellow" skin, "red" skin, "black" skin, "white" skin, and "brown" skin, there must be many different skin pigments or colorings. And since different chemicals for coloring would mean a different genetic recipe or code in the hereditary blueprint in each people group, it appears to be a real problem. How could all those differences develop within a short time?

However, we all have the same coloring pigment in our skin -- melanin. This is a dark-brownish pigment that is produced in different amounts in special cells in our skin. If we had none (as do people called albinos, who inherit a mutation-caused defect, and cannot produce melanin), then we would have a very white or pink skin coloring. If we produced a little melanin, we would be European white. If our skin produced a great deal of melanin, we would be a very dark black. And in between, of course, are all shades of brown. There are no other significant skin pigments.4

In summary, from currently available information, the really important factor in determining skin color is melanin -- the amount produced.

This situation is true not only for skin color. Generally, whatever feature we may look at, no people group has anything that is essentially different from that possessed by any other. For example, the Asian, or almond, eye differs from a typical Caucasian eye in having more fat around them. Both Asian and Caucasian eyes have fat -- the latter simply have less.


What does melanin do?

It protects the skin against damage by ultraviolet light from the sun. If you have too little melanin in a very sunny environment, you will easily suffer sunburn and skin cancer. If you have a great deal of melanin, and you live in a country where there is little sunshine, it will be harder for you to get enough vitamin D (which needs sunshine for its production in your body). You may then suffer from vitamin D deficiency, which could cause a bone disorder such as rickets.
We also need to be aware that we are not born with a genetically fixed amount of melanin. Rather, we have a genetically fixed potential to produce a certain amount, and the amount increases in response to sunlight. For example, you may have noticed that when your Caucasian friends (who spent their time indoors during winter) headed for the beach at the beginning of summer they all had more or less the same pale white skin color. As the summer went on, however, some became much darker than others.

How is it that many different skin colors can arise in a short time? Remember, whenever we speak of different "colors" we are referring to different shades of the one color, melanin.


If a person from a very black people group marries someone from a very white group, their offspring (called mulattos) are mid-brown. It has long been known that when mulattos marry each other, their offspring may be virtually any "color," ranging from very dark to very light. Understanding this gives us the clues we need to answer our question, but first we must look, in a simple way, at some of the basic principles of heredity.

Heredity


DNA drawing. Copyright, Eden Communications.



Each of us carries information in our body that describes us in the way a blueprint and specifications describe a furnished building. It determines not only that we will be human beings, rather than cabbages or crocodiles, but also whether we will have blue eyes, short nose, long legs, etc. When a sperm fertilizes an egg, all the information that specifies how the person will be built (ignoring such superimposed factors as exercise and diet) is already present. Most of this information is in coded form in our DNA.5

To illustrate coding, a piece of string with beads on it can carry a message in Morse code. The piece of string, by the use of a simple sequence of short beads, long beads (to represent the dots and dashes of Morse code), and spaces, can carry the same information as the English word "help" typed on a sheet of paper. The entire Bible could be written thus in Morse code on a long enough piece of string.

In a similar way, the human blueprint is written in a code (or language convention) which is carried on very long chemical strings of DNA. This is by far the most efficient information storage system known, greatly surpassing any foreseeable computer technology.6 This information is copied (and reshuffled) from generation to generation as people reproduce.

The word "gene" refers to a small part of that information which has the instructions for only one type of enzyme, for example.7 It may be simply understood as a portion of the "message string" containing only one specification.
For example, there is one gene that carries the instructions for making hemoglobin, the protein that carries oxygen in your red blood cells. If that gene has been damaged by mutation (such as copying mistakes during reproduction), the instructions will be faulty, so it will often make a crippled form of hemoglobin, if any. (Diseases such as sickle-cell anemia and thalassemia result from such mistakes.)

So, with an egg which has just been fertilized -- where does all its information, its genes, come from? One half comes from the father (carried in the sperm), and the other half from the mother (carried in the egg).

Genes come in pairs, so in the case of hemoglobin, for example, we have two sets of code (instruction) for hemoglobin manufacture, one coming from the mother and one from the father.

This is a very useful arrangement, because if you inherit a damaged gene from one parent that could instruct your cells to produce a defective hemoglobin, you are still likely to get a normal one from the other parent which will continue to give the right instructions. Thus, only half the hemoglobin in your body will be defective. (In fact, each of us carries hundreds of genetic mistakes, inherited from one or the other of our parents, which are usefully "covered up" by being matched with a normal gene from the other parent -- see "Where Did Cain Get His Wife?")

Further information about racial issues
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:28 PM   #67
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Iraq has "Nucular Weapons"
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:29 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by tontoz
And what source would you consider a good source, other than the fairy tale in the Bible?
i guess we'll see if its a fairytale...dont say i didnt warn you though
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:32 PM   #69
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Big explosion was Mt. Toba in Sumatra Indonesia (it caused the last ice age between 40,000 and 75,000 years ago).

Noah's Ark is the tale of a real man who lived near present day Bahgdad and built a large barge to carry a lot of farmers in his region along with their animals and families.

The concept that Noah's Ark had two of everything and saved the Earth's living creatures is ridiculous.

Why?

-there are 10 Billion different species on Earth
-he collected all of them???????????
-he kept the artic ones alive in heat or the tropical ones alive in the cold???????
-he convinced all the predators not to eat their prey?????????
-he counted and categorized them???????????
-he fit them all on one boat????????????
-he carefully placed them back in their natural habitats all over the world when the flood was over??????????????

wake up!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:54 PM   #70
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Modern genetics show how, following such a break-up of a population, variations in skin color, for example, can develop in only a few generations

In other words differences arise due to evolution. Convenient how you are arguing against evolution and for it at the same time.

And it is true that the genetic differences between people of different races is very small. At the same time I can use that same argument with regards to primates and humans. I don't think you want to go there.

It is also true that inbreeding has been known to cause harmful genetic defects. That is why inbreeding is taboo, even among animals. The idea that we all came from Adam and Eve means that we are all products of repeated inbreeding, which is simply wrong.
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Old 09-07-2006, 02:58 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by JtotheIzzo
Big explosion was Mt. Toba in Sumatra Indonesia (it caused the last ice age between 40,000 and 75,000 years ago).

Noah's Ark is the tale of a real man who lived near present day Bahgdad and built a large barge to carry a lot of farmers in his region along with their animals and families.

The concept that Noah's Ark had two of everything and saved the Earth's living creatures is ridiculous.

Why?

-there are 10 Billion different species on Earth
-he collected all of them???????????
-he kept the artic ones alive in heat or the tropical ones alive in the cold???????
-he convinced all the predators not to eat their prey?????????
-he counted and categorized them???????????
-he fit them all on one boat????????????
-he carefully placed them back in their natural habitats all over the world when the flood was over??????????????

wake up!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:01 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by tontoz
In other words differences arise due to evolution. Convenient how you are arguing against evolution and for it at the same time.

And it is true that the genetic differences between people of different races is very small. At the same time I can use that same argument with regards to primates and humans. I don't think you want to go there.

It is also true that inbreeding has been known to cause harmful genetic defects. That is why inbreeding is taboo, even among animals. The idea that we all came from Adam and Eve means that we are all products of repeated inbreeding, which is simply wrong.

don't waste your time trying to talk sense into intelligent design believers who use science causually when it fits their cause and ignore the overwhelming evidence that disproves their BS argument.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:09 PM   #73
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don't waste your time trying to talk sense into intelligent design believers who use science causually when it fits their cause and ignore the overwhelming evidence that disproves their BS argument.

I don't think it is a waste to challenge someone to open their mind to reality.


That was some good info on Mt Toba and Noah. I was waiting to pounce on the Noah nonsense but I don't think I could improve on your reply ;)
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:10 PM   #74
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Good point. I'll say it like this.

Say you believe cookies are bad for you, and you're a firm believer of it. Then someone comes along and gives you all these believeable reasons as to why cookies are good for you. Most likely you'll just get pissed off and say the guy is retarded. It would take a lot for you to change your belief. Same goes for what's being discussed here.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:12 PM   #75
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well, in evolution there would have had to be imbreeding somewhere as well.
that magical rock 4.6billion years ago didnt just spout out a whole bunch of dfferent species all at once did it? there is a big difference between micro and macro evolution! no one will be able to show me proof of one species "evolving" into a completely different species. if you never answer any of my questions, atleast answer this one
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