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Old 09-06-2006, 01:31 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by dejordan
it's true that the heat would decimate any fiba team in a seven game nba finals and might win in the world championships, but fiba teams aren't allowed to compete in the nba playoffs, and nba teams don't compete in fiba tournaments.
so what? only World Championships can produce a World Champion, not the NATIONAL basketball Association
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:31 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JSub
NBA vs FIBA

The NBA and FIBA are different alright....the NBA is just watered down BS thats a mere silhouette of what it used to be. All this complaining to refs, all these free throws, all this guard favoritism, all this rigging, all these fines, all these "superstars" who have no fundamentals, all these individuals....not TEAMS.

FIBA is what you call REAL basketball. Let the men play. Basketball is a game of teamwork and contact. Its not a game of touch fouls and constant nagging towards the refs. No player should get such overwhelming superstar treatment. If anything, the FIBA champion is the WORLD champion. The entire world uses its rules and regulations. The competition is comprised of teams...not isolation plays.
FIBA! where you can set moving screens, man to man perimeter defense is illegal, and you have to flop like a fish to get a call! wait... that's what the nba is turning into!
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:32 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Semiprocappa
Smaller key, unlimited zone, shorter 3 point line.
.
While I agree that bigs have limited efficiency with a smaller key, how can a shorter 3 pt line and zones can be considered valid reasons for NBA players to be less effective in the way basketball is played everywhere in world but in the US??

A professional guard should be able to hit an open shot from 6.25m. The skills went so downhill that it's a surprise to see an NBA player constantly hit a mid-range jumper...If you can shoot, zones won't affect you that much. If the team hits 2 or 3 shots in a row, watch the zone disapear.
NBA players are professional basketball players. They should be able to hit mid range jumpers! On the Dream Team, even the centers were hitting jumpers. They did it because they couldn't operate in the paint the same way as in the NBA. It wasn't athletism that won that medal in 1992, it was smart playing from players who possesed all the fundamentals, which certainly isn't the case of this generation.
Don't get me wrong, LeBron, Melo, Wade etc. are skilled players, but even when they try, their lack of fundamental skills is exposed. Basic shooting is required, refs won't give you all that superstar treatment, you won't be able to travel, won't be able to carry etc. Just play basketball.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:36 PM   #34
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[quote=Milkman]so what? only World Championships can produce a World Champion, not the NATIONAL basketball Association[/QUOTE
uh huh. and? i'm not calling the heat world champs. i'm just making the statement that spain would get crushed by the heat if they played but since they didn't spain is the world champs. nice knee jerk reaction though.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:39 PM   #35
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im saying "so what" because that doesnt have anything to do with this thread. way to read the first post though.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasheed1
FIBA & NBA are two different leauges..

dont be an ass hole.... it wasnt an excuse, it was a rule that I said I didnt like... big difference.. Foreign players who play in the NBA have plenty of time to practice and play under NBA rules clown, maybe that is why they dont have as much trouble adjusting to the rules...

did you ever consider that?
Yeah...I don't remember Dirk, AK47 etc. doing that in their rookie years. You know, after they left Europse after having played there all their lives. How long did THEY have to adjust? What, 2 months in the summer?? lol. Well, tell NBA players to do that too then. Next thing you know you'll start saying they were bothered because they couldn't take 3 steps to the basket and you didn't like it.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:40 PM   #37
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I agree. NBA champions should be called just that, NBA champions and nothing more.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:41 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Diamonds

Unbelievable!!! The NBA Champs only play teams based in the USA plus 1 team based in Canada. Is that your definition of the world? USA and Canada? lol
If Greece beat Team USA, then I believe FC Barcelona or Tau Ceramica can beat the Heat.
To the person who mentionned the rebounds thing: wow, what a stupid excuse! Why weren't other versions of Team USA affected? What don't we see Dirk, Gasol and all non American players do that all the time (grab rebounds while they're still over the virtual cylinder)? After all, they've been playing like that since they were kids.
And I don't follow baseball, but I believe Team USA also had their ass kicked there. Yet I bet whoever wins the World Series is called World Champion. lol

i'll start w/baseball.

baseball is DEFINITELY more of an international game. just keep in mind that baseball has been around for almost 100 years. back in the day baseball was as american as it could be.

but if you fast forward to 2006, w/so many international players from asia...japan and korea, all the central american countries, naturally cuba, baseball is a worldwide league. so sure, you can say for the last 30 years baseball has changed and IF the mbl wants to rethink 'WORLD SERIES' when there's been this century long precident...

as for the nba...

for the most part, this was an AMERICAN league. naturally there's the competitive part of the league and the business side of the league. the league wanting to diversify the league wanted to get international players into it.

it's pretty obvious that the best of the best of the world plays in the nba. why? because what translates beyond borders is an nba contract.

the rest of the world has the advantange of staying in their respective leagues around the world. they'll play longer w/their respective teams longer since i doubt the international players are worrying about whether their 'star players' are going sign a mult-year, multi-million dollar contracts unless of course they think they're good enough and enter the draft...the NBA draft.

funny thing is the players that go overseas AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH to play in the nba.

the international players MUST BE GOOD ENOUGH to come and play in the nba.

note the difference.

if the international fans want to be happy that that fiba beat out our usa team. you have a right to be happy about it.

you put together a better TEAM. that's the bottomline the world recognizes.

but if you really believe the best is from spain...
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:43 PM   #39
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but but but but....NBA players can dunk better do sick crossovers!!!
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonds
Yeah...I don't remember Dirk, AK47 etc. doing that in their rookie years. You know, after they left Europse after having played there all their lives. How long did THEY have to adjust? What, 2 months in the summer?? lol. Well, tell NBA players to do that too then. Next thing you know you'll start saying they were bothered because they couldn't take 3 steps to the basket and you didn't like it.
the only way to make this a valid argument is for a whole team of fiba stars with little to no experience playing nba basketball to create a new team to play in the nba with no more than a month to prepare. and for the record wasn't jasikevisius supposed to be the best player in europe the year before last? why couldn't he hold down a starting spot in the nba. i seem to remember a broken down dominique wilkins winning an mvp when he played fiba ball... of course dominique is old school and we're ragging on current nba standards, so maybe that's not a fair comparison. anyway this is a dumb argument, and i'm going to drop it. the original poster is right. nba champ does not equal word champ.
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:52 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan803
i'll start w/baseball.

baseball is DEFINITELY more of an international game. just keep in mind that baseball has been around for almost 100 years. back in the day baseball was as american as it could be.

but if you fast forward to 2006, w/so many international players from asia...japan and korea, all the central american countries, naturally cuba, baseball is a worldwide league. so sure, you can say for the last 30 years baseball has changed and IF the mbl wants to rethink 'WORLD SERIES' when there's been this century long precident...

as for the nba...

for the most part, this was an AMERICAN league. naturally there's the competitive part of the league and the business side of the league. the league wanting to diversify the league wanted to get international players into it.

it's pretty obvious that the best of the best of the world plays in the nba. why? because what translates beyond borders is an nba contract.

the rest of the world has the advantange of staying in their respective leagues around the world. they'll play longer w/their respective teams longer since i doubt the international players are worrying about whether their 'star players' are going sign a mult-year, multi-million dollar contracts unless of course they think they're good enough and enter the draft...the NBA draft.

funny thing is the players that go overseas AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH to play in the nba.

the international players MUST BE GOOD ENOUGH to come and play in the nba.

note the difference.

if the international fans want to be happy that that fiba beat out our usa team. you have a right to be happy about it.

you put together a better TEAM. that's the bottomline the world recognizes.

but if you really believe the best is from spain...
Hey Jan...
Like I said, NBA players are very good and extremely skilled, and I don't think I said the best players are in Spain. Of course the NBA is the best league in the world. But that doesn't make its Champion the World Champion. How can a world champion play teams from 2 countries only.
And I don't think that you can refute the argument that international players tend to know their fundamentals better than NBA players, which is what I said.
A good example if your favourite player. If he didn't have all the fundamentals, wouldn't he be just a taller version of Steve Francis? I personally would take Ginobili (good fundamentals + good athletism) over Steve Francis (exceptional athletism + doubtful fundamentals) every day.

To sum up what I'm saying: the NBA Champ isn't the World Champ.
The NBA is the best league in the world.
The losses of Team America over the last FOUR years are mainly due to the lack of fundamentals and the style of play that one can observe in the NBA
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Old 09-06-2006, 01:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmedamien
I agree. NBA champions should be called just that, NBA champions and nothing more.
I agree as well. For now, the NBA is still the best league in the world but the gap is closing. The FIBA champion has a much greater claim to be the World Champion than any NBA team.

What I would love to see is the coordination of the best Euro league championship with the NBA championship where both would end at about the same time. Then, the winners could go on to play a series for the true World Championship, perhaps it could be the best of three -- a shorter series than the NBA championship, but more than just a single winner-take-all game.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
the only way to make this a valid argument is for a whole team of fiba stars with little to no experience playing nba basketball to create a new team to play in the nba with no more than a month to prepare. and for the record wasn't jasikevisius supposed to be the best player in europe the year before last? why couldn't he hold down a starting spot in the nba. i seem to remember a broken down dominique wilkins winning an mvp when he played fiba ball... of course dominique is old school and we're ragging on current nba standards, so maybe that's not a fair comparison. anyway this is a dumb argument, and i'm going to drop it. the original poster is right. nba champ does not equal word champ.
Again, I never said that non American players are the best. I said that Team USA is paying the price for the lack of fundamentals that seems to be a trend in the NBA. Jasikevisius wouldn't even play 1 minute f it wasn't for his fundamentals. I want to see how a player like Steve Francis will be at 30 (Jasikevisius' age). I'm not saying he definitely won't be a starter, but when that athletism of his is gone, what's left? That it the point I'm making. The lack of fundamentals.
As you said yourself, 'Nique was old school and even though he probaly couldn't dunk, jump etc. like in his younger days, he made up for it with his smarts.
Stockton at 40 was still a good player in the NBA, mostly on smarts. I don't see many of today stars doing it in 15 years.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:06 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamonds
Again, I never said that non American players are the best. I said that Team USA is paying the price for the lack of fundamentals that seems to be a trend in the NBA. Jasikevisius wouldn't even play 1 minute f it wasn't for his fundamentals. I want to see how a player like Steve Francis will be at 30 (Jasikevisius' age). I'm not saying he definitely won't be a starter, but when that athletism of his is gone, what's left? That it the point I'm making. The lack of fundamentals.
As you said yourself, 'Nique was old school and even though he probaly couldn't dunk, jump etc. like in his younger days, he made up for it with his smarts.
Stockton at 40 was still a good player in the NBA, mostly on smarts. I don't see many of today stars doing it in 15 years.
totally valid arguments diamond. i don't disagree with any of that. well said.
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Old 09-06-2006, 02:13 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejordan
totally valid arguments diamond. i don't disagree with any of that. well said.
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