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Old 01-11-2012, 06:01 PM   #10066
kNIOKAS
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford.

8/10, I felt it was sooo undeveloped. The Ford character did work, the B. Pitt - not. It was shallow and one-sided. But it did give thoughts about the whole story. And well, the scenery was great. I thought this film had loads of potential, but came up a bit short.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:09 PM   #10067
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
I probably would have enjoyed the new one had I not seen the original. But the original girl was a better actress (She was just more intense during the revenge scene and other scenes), the chemistry between the girl and the guy was better (his reaction was more awkward acceptance of her which made more sense than full acceptance; the dialog just gave more meaning to their relationship such as "You know everything about me, and I know nothing about you"). The reveal of clues seemed more tactful in the original. The ending of the original didn't go on forever (really? Did we really need all the follow up details that [spoiler]the bad guy businessman who we saw all of 30 seconds had to be murdered for American audiences to be satisfied?[/spoiler] The original was better in that it didn't take forever to wrap up after the climax). I really wished the remake didn't take place in Sweden and still have everybody speak English. If they wanted people to speak English, at least make the movie take place in a primarily English speaking country. Another irritation was that this movie had no new spin on the movie. Instead, the biggest changes were that they removed any subtlety, which just feels like they are speaking down to the American audiences: [spoiler]"Oh, I hope you like **** sex."[/spoiler] Did they think American's wouldn't understand what was happening without that line? There were several other lines too where the American version spelled out things for the audience when it was completely unnecessary. Also, they ruined the telling of the background of the girl with the tattoo. The new one made her seem sad and crazy, but didn't do a good job linking the too. The original was better making you empathize for the trauma she went through.

Overall, this was a completely unnecessary remake that offered nothing new. The only thing it was good for was to dumb down the original and make it in English so they could make money off of the ignorant American audiences. I miss the good ole days of Fincher with Fight Club, Se7en, and The Game. His last few movies have been drab to me.

Interesting. I saw the new version a few weeks ago. I had never read any of the books and I'm pretty sure I got the movie confused with 'How to train your Dragon' on more than one occasion

But I really liked it. I just added the original to my netflix que and will watch it a bit later, I'll come back and rate/compare when I get around to finishing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kNIOKAS
The assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford.

8/10, I felt it was sooo undeveloped. The Ford character did work, the B. Pitt - not. It was shallow and one-sided. But it did give thoughts about the whole story. And well, the scenery was great. I thought this film had loads of potential, but came up a bit short.

What about it did you think needed to be more developed? I thought the characters were as fleshed out as they could be considering we joined the James Gang story near the end. Could you get into more specifics about how/where it came up short?
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:03 PM   #10068
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
What about it did you think needed to be more developed? I thought the characters were as fleshed out as they could be considering we joined the James Gang story near the end. Could you get into more specifics about how/where it came up short?
That's right, I find hard time explaining that s***.
Everybody was extremely scared and shaky around Jesse. He might have had reputation for that, but in movie, I wasn't scared of him. Thanks to Pitt's flat cheeks but maybe it's something else. All the crooks were the same around him, trying to act/lie and failing. Maybe the honest side of them could have been shown. I felt Jesse was static, his presense versus everybody else, rather than "alive" character. Over here we have a play written about our king, and in whole poem, it does not appear but everybody speaks about him. That was the design, maybe it's kind of the same in the movie too. Jesse's wife was non-factor also, only glimpses of when she had to put up with other crooks in the house. Jesse is thinking of something, fighting demons (maybe?), but not enough detail on that. I liked Ford character, at the very begining I felt discomforted as he was so much in love (maybe homo?) with Jesse. That was interesting and refreshing, but again, not much shown how that translated to killing/trying to live off of Jesse's fame. I liked the atmosphere/historic time, as it lets to be more authentic, maybe exposes more human character in it. Like what would be like to ride horse in the night with no lights, no music, just being with your killer thoughts. The killing scene, I couldn't get what Jesse was thinking... And etc. etc.
It could have been me just not understanding it deeply enough, but as a movie I felt it didn't give me much to consume, just few insights of what could have been.
Thanks for asking, I hope I made sense.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:25 PM   #10069
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kNIOKAS
That's right, I find hard time explaining that s***.
Everybody was extremely scared and shaky around Jesse. He might have had reputation for that, but in movie, I wasn't scared of him.

I think they didn't spend too much time going deeper into Jesse's story because well, he's Jesse F*cking James, one of the most famous figures in American history. Would make sense that you wanted to know more about him, his history, etc since you may not be that familiar with his story being from outside of the U.S. But I think they didn't want to delve much into his past because the focus was on his last days, with Ford's story being the focus.

But James was a murderous psychopath since he was a teenager. He rode with Bloody Bill Anderson and Quantrill's Raiders early in the Civil War/Kansas border wars when he was just a kid and was directly involved in several brutal massacres including Centralia. Plus he killed many people during his robbery career, so obviously his new gang would know his history. Plus he was a larger than life figure so obviously they regarded him with some reverence.

Quote:
Thanks to Pitt's flat cheeks but maybe it's something else. All the crooks were the same around him, trying to act/lie and failing. Maybe the honest side of them could have been shown. I felt Jesse was static, his presense versus everybody else, rather than "alive" character.


At that point in Jesse's life he wasn't really the larger than life outlaw anymore. He was constantly paranoid after being on the run since he was a kid, his original gang was all either dead or in jail, his brother had abandoned him, and he was surrounded by people he couldn't trust. On top of that he was suffering from tuberculosis (called consumption then). So he was a miserable past his prime prick by the time his biggest fan Ford meets him. But there was a deleted scene that revealed a lot about Jesse and made him more human/alive/etc. Wish they had kept it in the final cut (never saw the director's cut, so it might still be in there):

Night of April 2, 1882

Quote:
Over here we have a play written about our king, and in whole poem, it does not appear but everybody speaks about him. That was the design, maybe it's kind of the same in the movie too. Jesse's wife was non-factor also, only glimpses of when she had to put up with other crooks in the house. Jesse is thinking of something, fighting demons (maybe?), but not enough detail on that. I liked Ford character, at the very begining I felt discomforted as he was so much in love (maybe homo?) with Jesse. That was interesting and refreshing, but again, not much shown how that translated to killing/trying to live off of Jesse's fame. I liked the atmosphere/historic time, as it lets to be more authentic, maybe exposes more human character in it. Like what would be like to ride horse in the night with no lights, no music, just being with your killer thoughts. The killing scene, I couldn't get what Jesse was thinking... And etc. etc.

I thought the writer/director made it deliberately known that they thought Jesse's actions were a form of suicide. All we know about that moment historically is that Jesse laid down his guns and turned his back to the Fords knowing they were there to spy on/capture/kill him. Whether that was to trick them into a false sense of security or him basically laying down his life out of exhaustion from his life of paranoia and running has always been open to interpretation. This movie definitely took the route that Jesse made his choice knowing that would be his last.

Quote:
It could have been me just not understanding it deeply enough, but as a movie I felt it didn't give me much to consume, just few insights of what could have been.
Thanks for asking, I hope I made sense.

No, made perfect sense. I get what you're trying to say. Makes sense that a figure that you're not too familiar with would seem a bit thin in that portrayal, so I guess if you knew more about James' life, history, etc than you would've viewed the film differently.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:55 PM   #10070
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

The fear felt by the people around him was justified because Jesse could see through everyone and was unpredictable. In the end his constant paranoia was validated. He was right to never trust anyone.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:10 PM   #10071
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And as far as the directors cut, his version is about 4 hours long. I've read conflicting reports about the theatrical, some say he was devastated and other says he loved it. Very few people have seen it the 4 hour cut, I believe it was only shown at the Venice film festival. The audience said it was a masterpiece.

I tend to believe that he was disappointed with what Warner did to his version. Apparently there's several versions of the movie by many different editors. I think that's part of the reason the theatrical release was delayed.

Also, the Blu-Ray release has absolutely no supplement features other than a documentary. That leads me to believe none of the major players wanted to involve themselves in any commentaries or special features.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:13 PM   #10072
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0oo8...eature=related

^maybe my favorite scene

Damn, I really want to rewatch that movie now.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:31 PM   #10073
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0oo8...eature=related

^maybe my favorite scene

Damn, I really want to rewatch that movie now.

Sam Rockwell was so good in it. He's in my two favorite scenes. The first being the retrospective that is done after Charley and John kill Jesse, right when Charley's life is slowly falling apart and he starts to slowly act more like Jesse during their plays. Second is when Jesse wakes up Charley from sleeping and starts questioning him about George Hite and they swap stories. Charley is petrified of Jesse in that scene.

It's a top ten movie for me.
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Old 01-11-2012, 10:53 PM   #10074
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
But there was a deleted scene that revealed a lot about Jesse and made him more human/alive/etc. Wish they had kept it in the final cut (never saw the director's cut, so it might still be in there):

Night of April 2, 1882
This is something! What I was hoping to see... Didn't get much from this actual scene, but yes... And it would be interesting to see ex-criminal having review of his life, and maybe not the easily-expected regrets of it, but somewhat unsual, new perspective, especially coming from the psychopath. Maybe this scene could have been one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0oo8...eature=related

^maybe my favorite scene

Damn, I really want to rewatch that movie now.
I felt this was one of the social scenes, where they show how alienated people could be as a mass. The bystander effect and all that. This could be the whole different issue, but kind of overplayed one. It's ok the movie didn't cover it more.

Everybody thanks for comments and putting this into perspective for me! Watching Celtics game so cannot concentrate on this.


Hey, by the way, you guys saw Carlos? About that terrorist, plane to Algeria and etc. I saw movie version, ~2:45 lenght. They say it is also a mini TV series of total ~5 hours or so. May be not be seen as related to this movie, but still. ?
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Old 01-11-2012, 11:48 PM   #10075
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete's montreux
Sam Rockwell was so good in it. He's in my two favorite scenes. The first being the retrospective that is done after Charley and John kill Jesse, right when Charley's life is slowly falling apart and he starts to slowly act more like Jesse during their plays. Second is when Jesse wakes up Charley from sleeping and starts questioning him about George Hite and they swap stories. Charley is petrified of Jesse in that scene.

It's a top ten movie for me.

This film was my introduction to both Rockwell and Jeremy Renner, hadn't really seen anything either one had done before that. Rockwell was fantastic, especially when Charley's personality begins to change like you mentioned when he starts mimicking Jesse for real once the guilt and disdain for his brother starts to really eat away at him. His performance was overlooked by most because of Affleck and even Pitt's work, but Rockwell was the stand out IMO.

Quote:
I felt this was one of the social scenes, where they show how alienated people could be as a mass. The bystander effect and all that. This could be the whole different issue, but kind of overplayed one. It's ok the movie didn't cover it more.

I think the point of that scene was part of the overall theme of the film- the legend of Jesse James vs the real Jesse James. James is immortalized as the romantic robin hood figure and Ford as the 'dirty little coward' but the truth of the matter is in a more murky, grey area. I think even the title (same as the book) was a bit tongue-in-cheek seeing as how Jesse is remembered as the outlaw hero and Ford the coward even though pretty much everyone Jesse killed during his life was unarmed. Even in the movie, he does what Ford is maligned and reviled for- shoots an unarmed man in the back (Ed Miller) and earlier in the movie he struck and was about to shoot an unarmed, innocent train conductor.

I think the structure of the film, opening with the narration going on about the legend- 'rains fell straighter, clocks moved slower, etc' introduced us to the myth. That's the Jesse James that Ford knew growing up and idolizing him, but when he finally gets to meet him, he comes to realize that 'he's just a human being' and a very flawed one at that. So it's ironic that Ford is villainized for killing a mass murderer and thief and Jesse lives on in legend while after his death while Ford lives a constant nightmare until he himself is shotgunned while unarmed and caught off guard.

As far as I know, this was the first film that portrayed Jesse as anything besides a noble, fearless robin hood and Ford a sniveling coward and/or opportunist. It wasn't apologetic for Ford, but definitely sympathetic I think.

Last edited by DonDadda59 : 01-11-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:33 AM   #10076
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
...Overall, this was a completely unnecessary remake that offered nothing new.

The only thing it was good for was to dumb down the original and make it in English so they could make money off of the ignorant American audiences.



interesting. i'll definitely be watching the original, especially since it's superior.
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Old 01-12-2012, 12:36 AM   #10077
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
This film was my introduction to both Rockwell and Jeremy Renner, hadn't really seen anything either one had done before that. Rockwell was fantastic, especially when Charley's personality begins to change like you mentioned when he starts mimicking Jesse for real once the guilt and disdain for his brother starts to really eat away at him. His performance was overlooked by most because of Affleck and even Pitt's work, but Rockwell was the stand out IMO.



I think the point of that scene was part of the overall theme of the film- the legend of Jesse James vs the real Jesse James. James is immortalized as the romantic robin hood figure and Ford as the 'dirty little coward' but the truth of the matter is in a more murky, grey area. I think even the title (same as the book) was a bit tongue-in-cheek seeing as how Jesse is remembered as the outlaw hero and Ford the coward even though pretty much everyone Jesse killed during his life was unarmed. Even in the movie, he does what Ford is maligned and reviled for- shoots an unarmed man in the back (Ed Miller) and earlier in the movie he struck and was about to shoot an unarmed, innocent train conductor.

I think the structure of the film, opening with the narration going on about the legend- 'rains fell straighter, clocks moved slower, etc' introduced us to the myth. That's the Jesse James that Ford knew growing up and idolizing him, but when he finally gets to meet him, he comes to realize that 'he's just a human being' and a very flawed one at that. So it's ironic that Ford is villainized for killing a mass murderer and thief and Jesse lives on in legend while after his death while Ford lives a constant nightmare until he himself is shotgunned while unarmed and caught off guard.

As far as I know, this was the first film that portrayed Jesse as anything besides a noble, fearless robin hood and Ford a sniveling coward and/or opportunist. It wasn't apologetic for Ford, but definitely sympathetic I think.

Have you seen Moon yet? You should ASAP.

This was the most historically accurate portrayal of Jesse, so says most experts and his family. Not sure about Ford.
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Old 01-12-2012, 02:27 AM   #10078
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30 minutes or less was good. Aziz was funny. Cracked me up if time, especially the last scene

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Old 01-12-2012, 04:00 AM   #10079
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Default Re: Rate the last movie you watched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete's montreux
Have you seen Moon yet? You should ASAP.

This was the most historically accurate portrayal of Jesse, so says most experts and his family. Not sure about Ford.

Moon
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Old 01-12-2012, 04:41 AM   #10080
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Moon

Watched it for the second time last night. Just as good as I remembered it. I wish Sam Rockwell would take more leading roles.
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