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Old 10-06-2008, 04:58 PM   #16
Xiao Yao You
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Deron is certainly at that level. Boozer never will be. He's limited physically.

No debate in my mind. He's not in the discussion.

Same thing.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:43 PM   #17
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Same thing.
Ok, so you agree that Karl Malone is one of the top 5, maybe top 3 PF's of all time, but you also think that Boozer has the potential to be >>>> Karl Malone... AND you think that Boozer isn't even in a current top 5 list? You can't take both sides in an argument.. stop trying to back out of a dumb comment.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

Not what I said. If Boozer helps lead a team to a title which is unlikely as long as he plays for Sloan than it will trump all of Karl's regular season accomplishments. If he goes to Miami to play with Wade that certainly seems possible.
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Old 10-06-2008, 11:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Not what I said. If Boozer helps lead a team to a title which is unlikely as long as he plays for Sloan than it will trump all of Karl's regular season accomplishments. If he goes to Miami to play with Wade that certainly seems possible.
Boozer on the main guy under any system, with any coach would not lead a team to a championship. period.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

I said help. Most in this folder think he's capable of helping lead the Jazz to one.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
I said help. Most in this folder think he's capable of helping lead the Jazz to one.
i'll assume you meant forum... and i'm sure its pretty much unanimous among even jazz fans that A. Deron Williams is the leader of the franchise, without question. and B. that Boozer isn't good enough to lead them to a chamionship.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:25 AM   #22
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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i'm sure its pretty much unanimous among even jazz fans that A. Deron Williams is the leader of the franchise, without question

You'd think but I'm not so sure that's the case? Most seem to think of them together like Stockton and Malone. He's their all-star the past two years though like Karl not the best player on the team.

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that Boozer isn't good enough to lead them to a chamionship

Most believe he can help lead them I think. I certainly don't see it as the team currently stands.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:00 PM   #23
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

Boozer isn't a stand alone superstar ala Yao or TMac. Deron might be someday, but the Jazz composition right now includes 4 all stars (borderline) and solid starting calibur players surrounding them (Brewer, Korver, Milsap). The attack is well balanced.

Each of the All-Stars takes a turn leading (Boozer has been mentioned together with "MVP" early in past seasons). Some fans get caught up in player X mania when he is on, but the more seasoned fans know the revolving order of things.

Williams is the only one to really show something more than just taking his turn at leading, though.

As for Boozer leading a team to the finals...offense is his best quality. He could be a first option on a championship team with good roleplayers. High fg%, effective post game, enough versatility to deal with different defenders (jump shot, right/left, etc...) something you can really go to. One playoff appearance he was clutch in the biggest moments, the other he disappeared. I'm not ready to call him a "choker" like everyone calls Malone...yet. He could lead a championship team in scoring and take his turn at hitting the big shot (but I see Williams doing the lionshareof buzzerbeaters).

But, Boozer isn't the same callibur as prime Malone. If we compare him to 2000 Malone, they look more similar. Nothing like the dominant Malone, and he won't be.

Last edited by Luigi : 10-07-2008 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 10-07-2008, 02:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Deron might be someday

In my mind he is all-star berth or not.

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the Jazz composition right now includes 4 all stars (borderline)

2. AK hasn't been close since he made it and Okur wasn't deserving.

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solid starting calibur players surrounding them (Brewer, Korver, Milsap)

Millsap has hardly proved he's of starter caliber and I wouldn't put Korver there either though he's started.

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Each of the All-Stars takes a turn leading

Deron's the leader without a doubt.

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(Boozer has been mentioned together with "MVP" early in past seasons).

By the Deseret News?

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offense is his best quality

Other than rebounding his only quality.

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He could be a first option on a championship team with good roleplayers.

Can't see it. Only players in the game today that have carried their teams to titles are Shaq, Duncan and Wade. He's not in their league.

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enough versatility to deal with different defenders (jump shot, right/left, etc...)

If he has to go to his jumper he's in trouble.

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I'm not ready to call him a "choker" like everyone calls Malone...yet.

Everyone? Most Jazz fans seem to think it was MJ, Rodman, Ostertag and the refs not Karl.

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If we compare him to 2000 Malone, they look more similar.

Statistically maybe. Karl could still play D and run the floor.
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Old 10-07-2008, 03:31 PM   #25
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

The problem is with your statement Luigi is that offense doesn't win championships. Boozer does get stats in terms of rebounding, but even so, IMO he doesn't have very much of an impact on the game from a defensive standpoint. He could have a shot as a great complementary player on a great team (kind of like Pau Gasol), but as the main guy I don't see it happening on any team.
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Old 10-07-2008, 04:17 PM   #26
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
Millsap has hardly proved he's of starter caliber and I wouldn't put Korver there either though he's started.
Most would disagree.

Quote:
By the Deseret News?

During the start of 06-07, Boozer was being batted around on Sports Center as an MVP candidate, leading the team to a 11-2 start.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ilydime-061215
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/10/...mpion-and-mvp/

Again in 07-08
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailyd...ge=dime-071126

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Can't see it. Only players in the game today that have carried their teams to titles are Shaq, Duncan and Wade. He's not in their league.

What part of "not a stand along superstar" did you not understand?

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If he has to go to his jumper he's in trouble.
Houston didn't think so in 2007 game 7 at Houston.

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Everyone? Most Jazz fans seem to think it was MJ, Rodman, Ostertag and the refs not Karl.
Everyone means you Xiao.




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Originally Posted by haterofhaters
The problem is with your statement Luigi is that offense doesn't win championships. Boozer does get stats in terms of rebounding, but even so, IMO he doesn't have very much of an impact on the game from a defensive standpoint. He could have a shot as a great complementary player on a great team (kind of like Pau Gasol), but as the main guy I don't see it happening on any team.

I agree he isn't going to anchor a championship team. But, to be the go to guy you don't have to be the defensive anchor also. My argument was that Boozer could be a first option on offense on a championship team if he had the proper peices around him (Williams as a second option and a defensive anchor). All Utah would need right now is a healthy Mark Eaton and we would be favorites, and Eaton's lack of skill would actually put more offensive pressure on Boozer.
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Most would disagree.

Most Jazz fans?

Quote:
During the start of 06-07, Boozer was being batted around on Sports Center as an MVP candidate

He's an MVP like Karl was. Not even the best players on their teams who get shown up by real MVP's when it counts.

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What part of "not a stand along superstar" did you not understand?

What part of nobody wins a championship without a stand alone superstar(other than the Celts with 3 stars) did you not get?

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All Utah would need right now is a healthy Mark Eaton and we would be favorites

LOL! Eaton was a joke and would be even more exposed as one in today's game.
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:26 PM   #28
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi
I agree he isn't going to anchor a championship team. But, to be the go to guy you don't have to be the defensive anchor also. My argument was that Boozer could be a first option on offense on a championship team if he had the proper peices around him (Williams as a second option and a defensive anchor). All Utah would need right now is a healthy Mark Eaton and we would be favorites, and Eaton's lack of skill would actually put more offensive pressure on Boozer.
You have to be something pretty special to be an offensive leader and go to guy (as a big) on a championship team. In the past decade it's been a very exclusive list. Shaq, Tim Duncan and that's it. And just being able to put up 20 points a game isn't enough. Offensively, there's many people capable of putting up Boozer type numbers, Al Jefferson, David West, Dirk Nowitzki, etc.. it's about whether you can be THE guy to be depended on in the clutch. Duncan is that guy, Shaq was that guy in his prime, Hakeem was that guy, Kareem was, Boozer is not. So even as the main option offensively I still don't see him being championship calibur.
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Old 10-07-2008, 05:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Shaq, Tim Duncan and that's it.

You forgot Wade.
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Old 10-07-2008, 06:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: D-Will+ Boozer = Mailman + Stockton?

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Originally Posted by Xiao Yao You
You forgot Wade.

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to be an offensive leader and go to guy (as a big)

No I didn't. That's why I said "as a big." When I said Shaq I wasn't referring to Miami Shaq.
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