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Old 11-02-2008, 02:30 PM   #1
hassano
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Default Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

going into the season everyone, including a lot of raptor fans, were ruling out that there may be a chance that our wings would even be solid for us.
saying were at a big disadvantage.

i think so far theyve proved everyone wrong, i mean specially on defense..
like last night they played against some very good wings in Jefferson and Redd and played really good defense and Moon even added double digit points.

so are they good enoughh to make the Raptors a legit contender with the big three surrounding them, i think so, wat do you guys think?
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Old 11-02-2008, 02:48 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

They have played well but still, compared to the rest of the league, the Raptors might have the worst talent at SG and SF collectively.

Parker has been playing very solid D but after 3 games, he is averaging 40 minutes per game. How long can we expect a 33 year old SG to keep that kind of D up playing such big minutes? Obviously he won't be up around 40 all year but I think 35 seems likely.

Parker and Moon are solid starters but it gets ugly once one of them comes out, especially Parker since he is the only competent SG on the roster. Graham is still a disaster and Kapono can do nothing but hit set jump shots. I still think an upgrade here will be necessary if the Raptors want to be title contenders. If not getting a very good impact player (Miller, JRich) then at least getting someone who can play that 2-guard spot and ease the load off Parker a bit.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:25 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Legit Contender for what? Being Top 4 in the eastern conference maybe ..... that's about it lol ..... they styll don't have that goto wing guy who can create his own shot off the dribble or create for others .... moon and parker get there points from bosh mainly .....
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
Legit Contender for what? Being Top 4 in the eastern conference maybe ..... that's about it lol ..... they styll don't have that goto wing guy who can create his own shot off the dribble or create for others .... moon and parker get there points from bosh mainly .....


And what is your point, that we can't win that way? No other team has a Chris Bosh and JO. The inside out game, one with good defense is the one that wins, unless you have Kobe or Lebron and even then they didn't win last year. Boston has Allen, and nobody can say he was the diference for them last year. So back off the thought that we need that big wing, it would be nice but not at the expense of taking shots away from Bosh, Jo and Calderon and trading away a bench that is not very well regarded.

And who cares where we end during the regular season, it's the post season that counts, and having JO just added the defensive toughness we missed the last couple of years.
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Old 11-02-2008, 05:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

If Bosh, O'Neal and Calderon play as they can (and two of the three look excellent already), and especially if Bargnani plays to his potential, the Raps won't need two top swingmen to be a threat. I don't think SF is a problem position- either Moon or Kapono are viable starters on a team that has three all-stars in other positions (as we just might if everything goes right*), and while I have worries about Parker, if he is able to keep up his early-season form he is fine too. The team is definitely thin at SG though, and we'd all love an athletic scorer there if possible.

(*JO would need to have a big improvement, but I'm prepared to give him a few months to get settled in and into top form before I worry about him.)
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

At this early stage there hasnít been a glaring weakness at the wings. It's real early.

Parker & Moon have held their own against decent competition --- Iguodala, Maggette, Stephen Jackson & Redd. Those dudes arenít p-ssies.

With JO & Bosh patrolling the paint, any deficiencies in man-to-man coverage can be covered up....at least majority of the time.

Thereís also the fact that in general the defensive intensity and IQ of the team has kicked up a notch this season. JO and CB4ís experience at the Olympics may have something to do with it.

Parker and Moon may lack supreme lateral quicks, but the effort theyíve put in so far is off the charts. They know their roles and unlike last season that helps chemistry big time.

Thatís the most important contribution the wings can make to this team. DEFENCE. The other is hitting the outside shot.

The majority of the time Bosh & JO will have the ball and theyíll be double teamed, so someone is open.

The wings donít need to break their man down and create for teammates, they just have to hit the open J. Itís that simple.

It remains to be seen if the Raptors will eventually need a more established wing player to come out of the East. The NBA season is a very long one. So far so good.
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
And what is your point, that we can't win that way? No other team has a Chris Bosh and JO. The inside out game, one with good defense is the one that wins, unless you have Kobe or Lebron and even then they didn't win last year. Boston has Allen, and nobody can say he was the diference for them last year. So back off the thought that we need that big wing, it would be nice but not at the expense of taking shots away from Bosh, Jo and Calderon and trading away a bench that is not very well regarded.

And who cares where we end during the regular season, it's the post season that counts, and having JO just added the defensive toughness we missed the last couple of years.

Look at the recent Champion Ship winners they all had a Allstar Wings plus Allstar Fowards that led them .....

2008 - Paul Perice/Garnett ....
2007 - Manu Ginobili/Tim Duncan .....
2006 - Dwayne Wade/Shaq .....
2005 - Manu Ginobili/Tim Duncan .....
Previous - Kobe/Shaq

We have that Allstar Post player but when it comes to playoff time teams really focus on your weakness which will be our wings that can't create for others and there self ...... it's a proven fact that you need Allstar type wings plus a decent big to win a Ship or even make it close. and just to tell you KID Boston had MVP Paul Perice as there Wing player so shut ya mouth, you don't know what your talking about .......
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

We have a tight 6-8 man rotation. Starters are getting heavy minutes.
The wings are playing limited minutes.
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Old 11-02-2008, 06:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

[quote=jrcp3]Look at the recent Champion Ship winners they all had a Allstar Wings plus Allstar Fowards that led them .....

2008 - Paul Perice/Garnett ....
2007 - Manu Ginobili/Tim Duncan .....
2006 - Dwayne Wade/Shaq .....
2005 - Manu Ginobili/Tim Duncan .....
Previous - Kobe/Shaq
QUOTE]

The thing is none of those teams had a top 10 point guard except the Spurs, so i think that with decent wings an all-star caliber point guard in Calderon the raps are right up there.
Now they still need their bench to be there on a consistent basis if they really want to contend with the best
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Old 11-02-2008, 08:17 PM   #10
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Excatly you JUST PROVED my point ..... if yall those team's don't have Allstar PG's ( Tony Parker MVP hehe ) .... Yet they all WON THE SHIP, so really all you need is a SUPERSTAR Wing and or Big man ...... those teams prove it .... look at it you .....
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

1994 NBA Champs Houston Rockets never had a dominant wing. Robert Horry averaged only 9.9 pts/game, his 2nd year. Not exactly dominant.

1999 NBA Champs SA Spurs had a borderline good wing in Sean Elliott.

Utah Jazz between 1996-1998 made the Finals without one too. Just a great PG in Stockton and a really good shooter in Hornacek. Sounds familiar.
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Dude that's Long time ago times have changed, as you can see you need a Superstar WING who can create for him self and others .... and a legit low post scorer ..... period it's that simple ..... we have that Legit post players now we just need that Borderline wing allstar who can iso and create for others then were set ....
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Old 11-02-2008, 09:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Quote:
Originally Posted by power works
1994 NBA Champs Houston Rockets never had a dominant wing. Robert Horry averaged only 9.9 pts/game, his 2nd year. Not exactly dominant.

1999 NBA Champs SA Spurs had a borderline good wing in Sean Elliott.

Utah Jazz between 1996-1998 made the Finals without one too. Just a great PG in Stockton and a really good shooter in Hornacek. Sounds familiar.


The Rockets had Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith and a rookie Sam Cassell who played huge in the playoffs. In addition to Horry. Their wing/guard play was great that year they won it all.

The Jazz had Hornacek and Russell, with some good young bench wings. I think you underestimate Hornacek, probably didn't watch him play.

The Spurs were really the only team that won without elite guard play. And they still had Elliot, Elie (very solid) and Avery Johnson.

You can find random examples of where teams have won primarily with one or the other, but you need elite guard/wing play. I am not sure if JO as he is, is enough to compensate. If we're talking prime JO, with prime Bosh and Jose then sure. But we need a better wing, be it a SG or SF to really make some noise.

Unless the NBA is just watered down enough that it doesn't matter so looking at past situations isn't relevant. But, I tend to agree that you need a creative wing in this NBA to win it all.
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Old 11-02-2008, 10:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith & Cassell were decent. They weren't all-star calibre. Horry was in his 2nd year averaging 9.9 pts, probably about the same as Moon or AP will do this season.

Moon, AP & Calderon are not flashy, but what they offer is underrated.

Hornacek was a great shooter with a high bball IQ. But, he was a defensive liability.

In a perfect Raptor world Gerald Wallace will start at small forward. But it isn't entirely impossible that the current wings can exceed expectations and be good enough for the Raps to be an East contender.
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Old 11-02-2008, 11:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Wings not 'as bad' as everyone thought they were

maybe raps will be the exception and make history
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