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Old 09-12-2006, 02:09 AM   #1
Tarik One
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Default Prime Pippen defending McGrady

Who gets the better of this matchup? How many points does McGrady score in say during an average 40 minutes during a seven game stretch?

0-10
10-20
20-25
30-35
35-40
40+

Last edited by Tarik One : 09-12-2006 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:12 AM   #2
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20-25. Pippen was a ridiculously good defender. T-Mac might have one of those nights where he goes for 40+ but if they were to match up let's say for 10 games his average would be around 20-23 points.
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:14 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarik One
Who gets the better of this matchup? How many points does McGrady score in say during an average 40 minutes?

0-10
10-20
20-25
30-35
35-40
40+

I'd say 20 - 25. I've always said, a superior offensive player can beat a superior defender. You can't stop a superior offensive player, cause he has the ball in his hands. But you can try to contain him and prevent him from going off. T- Mac couldn't go off for more than his average, but he'd still get his. But he'd have to WORK.

Last edited by hateraid : 09-12-2006 at 02:33 AM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:50 AM   #4
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If we're talking about Orlando TMac, then 20-25 seems too low, as long as he takes 23-25 shots per game. Around 26-30 would be my guess, even though his FG% would struggle. Remember, he did average 31+ in 2003 against the quickly emerging Pistons.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:54 AM   #5
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30-35 if Tmac is healthy and plays to his ability no one in the league or back in the day can stop him
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:01 AM   #6
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it depends on the rules somewhat.
If your playing early 90's rules, I 'd say 18-21 points.
Current rules, 24-28 points on like 40% shooting
It also depends on whether Pippen has the 93 or 98 Bulls around him, or the 2003 trailblazers.
Go watch the 91-93 Bulls play on dvd or something. Pippen is friggin awesome
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:02 AM   #7
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Ok, let me ask this... Can anyone name a wing from the 90s other than Jordan who was a better scorer than McGrady?
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:04 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaNdLe ThE RoCk
30-35 if Tmac is healthy and plays to his ability no one in the league or back in the day can stop him
I dont know how u make this call..... maybe if your not allowed to touch him like nowadays.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Ok, let me ask this... Can anyone name a wing from the 90s other than Jordan who was a better scorer than McGrady?
Grant Hill, Clyde Drexler, Dominique Wilkins, Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond, Pippen were all unstoppable scorers against top defence
i cant tell whether mcgradys tough enough or disciplined enough to drop 30 on the 93 knicks
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:09 AM   #10
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I don't think Grant Hill, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond, and Pippen are quite in T-Mac's league when it comes to scoring and difficulty in guarding.
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
I don't think Grant Hill, Clyde Drexler, Chris Mullin, Mitch Richmond, and Pippen are quite in T-Mac's league when it comes to scoring and difficulty in guarding.

some of Mullin vs. Pippen and the Bulls:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

Point being Mullin was a difficult guy to stop. One of the great shooters of all time. Did it a different way than T-Mac but no less difficult to guard.

As good a scorer as T-Mac is, Drexler is a whole other level of player. A notch below Jordan. Hill was not a prolific scorer but IMO a better overall player than T-Mac. Richmond was a great shooter as well and certainly not an easy player to guard himself. Since T-Mac did not play against the hardcore physical teams of the 80s and 90s, you cant judge him against guys who did. Drexler, Mullin and Ritchmond could have a field day with the new rules.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
some of Mullin vs. Pippen and the Bulls:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

Point being Mullin was a difficult guy to stop. One of the great shooters of all time. Did it a different way than T-Mac but no less difficult to guard.

As good a scorer as T-Mac is, Drexler is a whole other level of player. A notch below Jordan. Hill was not a prolific scorer but IMO a better overall player than T-Mac. Richmond was a great shooter as well and certainly not an easy player to guard himself. Since T-Mac did not play against the hardcore physical teams of the 80s and 90s, you cant judge him against guys who did. Drexler, Mullin and Ritchmond could have a field day with the new rules.


I dont think Pippen could shut down T-MAc. It would all depend on TMAc and how he plays. HE could have 40 or he could have 20 depends on the night. I have never seen 1 player shut down T-MAc before, and I doubt Pippen could do it.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
some of Mullin vs. Pippen and the Bulls:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...m1=CHI&tm2=GSW

Point being Mullin was a difficult guy to stop. One of the great shooters of all time. Did it a different way than T-Mac but no less difficult to guard.

As good a scorer as T-Mac is, Drexler is a whole other level of player. A notch below Jordan. Hill was not a prolific scorer but IMO a better overall player than T-Mac. Richmond was a great shooter as well and certainly not an easy player to guard himself. Since T-Mac did not play against the hardcore physical teams of the 80s and 90s, you cant judge him against guys who did. Drexler, Mullin and Ritchmond could have a field day with the new rules.

There is no question that Mullin was a great player. He was a fantastic shooter, but he isn't the explosive scorer that McGrady is. When healthy, T-Mac is quicker and more dynamic, capable of scoring in a myriad of ways. He can shoot from outside or blow past his man on his way to the rim. He's also a little stronger than Mullin, so bodying up on him won't do much good. Individual defense alone isn't going to stop a player like T-Mac when he is healthy. Team defense is what will stop him... and not really stop him, but rather, slow him down.

Let me just address a few other points... A number of people tend to bring up the recent defensive rule changes when making their points, but they often forget to add some of the details that will discredit some of these same points. For example, prior to the new rule changes, a player couldn't be doubles unless he had the ball in his hands and each player had to be on their man or within reach, so you couldn't have a player half-stepping or roaming... That has been done away with. Now you can send a double team whenever you like, even when they player doesn't have the ball in his hands, and players can roam, playing the passing lanes or cutting off driving lanes. As a result, now it is easier for a team to keep the ball out of the hands of an offensive player or to stop them from driving into the lane. What players like Jordan and Drexler would do when they got the ball is pull a quick move and attempt to get a high percentage shot before the double came. They'd lose thier man momentarily, gain a little space, and that's all they needed.

Elite scorers now are fortunate if they can get that space because if they aren't being denied the ball already, they have a double on the way in the form of a player who was roaming. We also have to remember that players like Ron Artest, Ruben Patterson, and Bruce Bowen are allowed to play that 90s style of beat 'em up defense. Though the new rules outlaw some of their techniques, they get away with them anyway... pushing, shoving, bumping and other forms of contact don't seem to be strictly regulated with some of the better defenders in the league. Thing is that while they are effective at times, they still get burned often, and that's with some of the new rules that help defenses. It's not as cut and dry as some seem to think.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
There is no question that Mullin was a great player. He was a fantastic shooter, but he isn't the explosive scorer that McGrady is. When healthy, T-Mac is quicker and more dynamic, capable of scoring in a myriad of ways. He can shoot from outside or blow past his man on his way to the rim. He's also a little stronger than Mullin, so bodying up on him won't do much good. Individual defense alone isn't going to stop a player like T-Mac when he is healthy. Team defense is what will stop him... and not really stop him, but rather, slow him down.

Let me just address a few other points... A number of people tend to bring up the recent defensive rule changes when making their points, but they often forget to add some of the details that will discredit some of these same points. For example, prior to the new rule changes, a player couldn't be doubles unless he had the ball in his hands and each player had to be on their man or within reach, so you couldn't have a player half-stepping or roaming... That has been done away with. Now you can send a double team whenever you like, even when they player doesn't have the ball in his hands, and players can roam, playing the passing lanes or cutting off driving lanes. As a result, now it is easier for a team to keep the ball out of the hands of an offensive player or to stop them from driving into the lane. What players like Jordan and Drexler would do when they got the ball is pull a quick move and attempt to get a high percentage shot before the double came. They'd lose thier man momentarily, gain a little space, and that's all they needed.

Elite scorers now are fortunate if they can get that space because if they aren't being denied the ball already, they have a double on the way in the form of a player who was roaming. We also have to remember that players like Ron Artest, Ruben Patterson, and Bruce Bowen are allowed to play that 90s style of beat 'em up defense. Though the new rules outlaw some of their techniques, they get away with them anyway... pushing, shoving, bumping and other forms of contact don't seem to be strictly regulated with some of the better defenders in the league. Thing is that while they are effective at times, they still get burned often, and that's with some of the new rules that help defenses. It's not as cut and dry as some seem to think.

3 of the top 30 PPG performances in history took place this year. you cant say that for any other year in NBA history.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
3 of the top 30 PPG performances in history took place this year. you cant say that for any other year in NBA history.

Problem is that you have three elite (not just current, but NBA history elite) wing players who don't have others to share the scoring load with their teams... You take a closer look, and you realize that those three players are Bryant, Iverson, and Lebron... in general, they sorta stack up well to NBA history don't they... That stat doesn't prove much. It is more situational than institutional.
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