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Old 09-12-2006, 07:24 PM   #31
L.Kizzle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Huh? Jordan posted up Clyde all series in the '92 Finals. Not sure what series you were watching. The rest of your post is correct, though.

He posted Clyde, but wasn't as effective as posting up, say a Hersey Hawkins. Clyde is bigger th MJ.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
I think you just answered your own question. McGrady has never shot higher than .457. Clyde once shot .506 while averaging 28.6 per and played 81 games.. Now you say he is so tough to guard one one one. Why doesnt he shoot higher. The hardest guys I saw to guard one on one like Jordan, Shaq, Bird, Dr. J, David Thompson all at least approached or shot over .500. In his last three seasons McGrady has shot .417, .431 and .406. Now I know he's had health problems (he says LOL) but if he is so unstoppable, why is he not shooting a higher percentage? Again McGrady is one helluva offensive player but let's not be blinded by the present.

So lets run with this logic for a second... You believe that Clyde Drexler, because he's more efficient, is a better offensive player than say, Kobe Bryant. As a scorer, Clyde is better than Kobe Bryant, true?
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.Kizzle
He posted Clyde, but wasn't as effective as posting up, say a Hersey Hawkins. Clyde is bigger th MJ.

Sorry, but Jordan's 35.8 ppg average in that series on nearly 53% shooting (on a lot of post-ups) suggests that he wasn't having trouble doing anything. I watched that entire series a few months ago again, and Jordan posted up Drexler just as much as he did any other 2-guard. Not sure where you're coming from, really.
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Old 09-12-2006, 07:56 PM   #34
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I think the original post was really refering to one on one play between T-mac and Pip. If you throw a team and game situation in , A defensive player can not play 48 complete minutes. But if these two players where to go at it one on one , I will still say T-mac whips Scottie. 21-17
Thinking of both these players in prime - ironically you would see alot of post up play and first step jams from both players.
people forget that T-mac was an exceptional defensive player.
I saw him control Kobe when they first came into the league.

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Old 09-12-2006, 08:12 PM   #35
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Jordan said the only player that could shut him down was Pippen in practice if that tells you anything.

Also, has anyone actually ever looked at T-Macs stats? His career average is 22.2 ppg and has only averaged over 30 ppg once, and as stated in prior posts is a way below average shooter.

He can explode for points and does some flashy stuff and great moves, but does it in glorified bunches (in other words he is streaky.)
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
So lets run with this logic for a second... You believe that Clyde Drexler, because he's more efficient, is a better offensive player than say, Kobe Bryant. As a scorer, Clyde is better than Kobe Bryant, true?

No. I said Clyde was a better overall player IMO than T-Mac. I did not say he was better than Kobe. I mean we've never even seen McGrady go into deep waters as far as the playoffs where you have the same tough defender guarding you every game. I also said Clyde was a pretty tough cover unless you feel guys were getting out of his way and letting him score. Kobe however has done it at the highest level possible. Not dogging T-Mac. He is tough to guard but there a few guys who I feel are at least as tough to guard. For anybody who thinks Mullin is significantly easier never saw him in his prime. Bird can't do all the things T-Mac can physically. Does that make him easier to guard?
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Old 09-12-2006, 09:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
He's just a better player IMO. A better passer, rebounder, defender. Higher percentage shooter. Better teammate. More durable. As the best player on his team, he led his team to the finals twice and won one with Hakeem. Plus I have seen the full careers of both and saw Drexler from U of H to retirement justify his HOF status. with all that I give the nod to Clyde.


tmac is a better defender imo.

drexler definately more durable and a good scorer, and with the ring, i would put his career ahead of tmac. he did have better players around him than tmac has had.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:03 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by allball
No. I said Clyde was a better overall player IMO than T-Mac. I did not say he was better than Kobe. I mean we've never even seen McGrady go into deep waters as far as the playoffs where you have the same tough defender guarding you every game. I also said Clyde was a pretty tough cover unless you feel guys were getting out of his way and letting him score. Kobe however has done it at the highest level possible. Not dogging T-Mac. He is tough to guard but there a few guys who I feel are at least as tough to guard. For anybody who thinks Mullin is significantly easier never saw him in his prime. Bird can't do all the things T-Mac can physically. Does that make him easier to guard?

I said that T-Mac is a better scorer and offensive player. I didn't mention any other parts of his game... I'm focussing on scoring. I asserted that T-Mac is a better and more versatile scorer than Clyde.

Your response was:

Quote:
McGrady has never shot higher than .457. Clyde once shot .506 while averaging 28.6 per and played 81 games.. Now you say he is so tough to guard one one one. Why doesnt he shoot higher... Now I know he's had health problems (he says LOL) but if he is so unstoppable, why is he not shooting a higher percentage?

However, using this logic, Clyde Drexler was a better scorer and offensive player than Bryant. Bryant has never shot anything close to .506 in his career. Why doesn't Bryant shoot a higher percentage? According to your logic, Clyde Drexler must be the better offensive player of the two.

Unless you're willing to say that Drexler is a better offensive player than Bryant, you must understand where this argument fails, and why it fails. Bryant must not be a tough player to guard one on one compared to Clyde because he doesn't have as high a shooting percentage as Drexler... Does that sound reasonable... because it's the same logic you're applying to T-Mac right now.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:07 PM   #39
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When TMac is healthy no one can take him 1 on 1
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:07 PM   #40
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impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Huh? Jordan posted up Clyde all series in the '92 Finals. Not sure what series you were watching. The rest of your post is correct, though.

Ah, let me revise my original statement:

Jordan, when posting up Clyde, shot more airballs while fading away than any other time I've ever seen. Meaning he was not as efficient on the postups as he would, had he been guarded by other shooting guards.

Not that he never did.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:23 PM   #42
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20-25 ppg. You have to remember that in a seven game series McGrady would have to guard Pippen. It was never easy to guard Pippen for anyone. Sometimes he was bringing the ball up. Many times he was leading the fast break. He could always get that steal or block that would get in the offensive players head. Yes, T Mac would probably have one 40 point game but I would also expect 2 games under 20 points against Pippen in a 7 game series and one of those games Pip would shut down T Mac. I remember when the Lakers played Detroit in the Finals and even Kobe got tired guarding Rip. By the 4th quarter Kobe looked winded. Pippen did not have a high motor like Rip, but he NEVER relaxed or coasted through a game. If he's hitting the boards, T Mac would have to follow. If he's leading the fast break T Mac would have to follow. I'm sure you all get where I'm going with this. If Pip could handle the likes of Magic in a stage like the NBA Finals and Mark Jackson when he was nearly at his best on the Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals, I'm sure he has it in him to handle anyone. He won't DOMINATE anyone for the full 7 games. Who can? Even Jordan couldn't shut someone down for 7 games.
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Old 09-12-2006, 10:33 PM   #43
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I have never seen anyone stop tmac unless it is him self or his back...when tmac is healthy he is praticaly unstoppable. some people say he was only unstoppable in his orlando days but i dont agree because with tmac coming to houston, he obviously needs to share the ball and still dominates. As for the Pippen vs Tmac situation, i do not see pippin stoping him because the significant change in the game from the 90's and now. Today, no one cane stop tmac.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:00 PM   #44
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I've seen far lesser players than T-Mac light up Pippen, stop turning him into a god.
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Old 09-12-2006, 11:28 PM   #45
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pippen has said before that he would have fouled out in the first half if he plays the same defense in todays game. guys like dwad, leb, kobe tmac etc scores a lot of points because you cant touch them. the whole 93 knicks will foul out if they play the their defense in todays game haha

pip vs tmac in 90's i think he'll get < 25. if ever he gets over 25 means he's shooting % is way way down

pip vs tmac in 2k rules, prob 30's if pip wil not foul out or tmac wont hurt his back

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