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Old 09-12-2006, 06:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BigTicket
You're kidding right ? Please say you aren't actually that ignorant.

Iraq had nothing to do with Bin Laden or any other terrorism on the US as has been proven over and over again. Being soft on terrorism and not wanting to start an unprovoced war are 2 entirely different things.

Beyond that though how many laws are you ok with Bush breaking ? Apparently the many he has broken so far don't bother you so maybe give me a shortlist of the ones you wouldnt allow him to break ?



What laws has he broken? You and others have not PROVEN that he has.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:42 PM   #17
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What laws has he broken? You and others have not PROVEN that he has.

So you missed the part where his wiretaps and other policies were ruled unconstitutional ?

Or the part where he admitted to running secret CIA prisons ?

Or all the evidence of torture taking place against terror suspects ?

And the list goes on.


Oh and apparently it's illegal to lie about having sex with your secretary but not illegal to lie about facts to start a war.....
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:45 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BigTicket
So you missed the part where his wiretaps and other policies were ruled unconstitutional ?

Or the part where he admitted to running secret CIA prisons ?

Or all the evidence of torture taking place against terror suspects ?

And the list goes on.


Oh and apparently it's illegal to lie about having sex with your secretary but not illegal to lie about facts to start a war.....


It's funny because they can't respond to that truthfully.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:50 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by hawks4life
he hasnt done a good job but he hasnt done a bad job

his opponent john karey or w.e that was...what do you think he would have done differently? not gone to war to please a few ppl? how much longer you think those ppl against the war would stand that way after terrorsits would basically be getting the green light that they can **** with us and we wont do anything back...then what? kary would have to go to war. we would still be at where we are now...im not saying bush has done goood, im just saying IMO that bush has us where we are quicker and a few less terrorists attacks than kerry would have led us through.
This is why Bush is our president, because of people like this. What does Iraq have to do with the War on Terrorism? Is he the mastermind behind 911? Where are the WOMD? Why would Bush give a damn if Iraq has freedom?
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Old 09-12-2006, 08:05 PM   #20
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Going to need you guys to help me out here, because as a Non-American watching this continuing debacle unfold I just don't get it, is there nothing you can do as a president in the US to get fired ?

War Crimes - yes
Torture - yes
Lying to the citizens repeatedly - yes
Breaking the law - yes
Complete incompetence - yes
No progress 5 years after 9/11 - yes
Secret prisons - yes

And the list goes on and on, and yet somehow you guys till keep him in office, why ?
At first it was just kinda funny really, looking at the guy you somehow elected president even if he didn't get the most votes, a guy who validated every anti-american prejudice you could possible have. But the joke stopped being funny 5 years ago, as the rest of us have to suffer the consequences of his actions as well but are unable to do anything about it.

At this point any claim you might once have had to being the land of liberty and justice is gone, along with any claim of moral superiority, and yet you continue to let him drag you down with him.


The same reason Clinton was able to stay in office despite breaking numerous laws, having a man killed, taking money from the Chinese government, lobbying on behalf of Enron, etc.

The same reason Bush I remained in office despite placing the UN's will over that of the Congress.

The same reason Reagan remained in office despite illegally selling arms to terrorists.

An apathetic American public and a bunch of cowards in Congress who are afraid of threatening their power when their party is in control.
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Old 09-13-2006, 03:53 AM   #21
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Gotta say the more I hear and learn about american politics the happier I am about the danish system in comparison

Actually having a real choice because there's more than 2 parties for example, or the laws against any campaigning on tv other than debates, that means no commercials, no attack adds etc.

And ofcourse the fact that we don't have a president means you just vote for a party that supports your beliefs, and then they pick a government and prime minister. As such anyone who screwed up as badly as Bush, would long ago have faced a vote of distrust and been removed from office.

Last edited by BigTicket : 09-13-2006 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:57 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by BigTicket
Going to need you guys to help me out here, because as a Non-American watching this continuing debacle unfold I just don't get it, is there nothing you can do as a president in the US to get fired ?

War Crimes - yes
Torture - yes
Lying to the citizens repeatedly - yes
Breaking the law - yes
Complete incompetence - yes
No progress 5 years after 9/11 - yes
Secret prisons - yes

And the list goes on and on, and yet somehow you guys till keep him in office, why ?
At first it was just kinda funny really, looking at the guy you somehow elected president even if he didn't get the most votes, a guy who validated every anti-american prejudice you could possible have. But the joke stopped being funny 5 years ago, as the rest of us have to suffer the consequences of his actions as well but are unable to do anything about it.

At this point any claim you might once have had to being the land of liberty and justice is gone, along with any claim of moral superiority, and yet you continue to let him drag you down with him.


War Crimes - no (like what?)
Torture - yes (his fault why? Impeachable how?)Lying to the citizens repeatedly - No. Being wrong is not the same as lying. Besides, if every lying politician was impeached, we'd have no government.)
Breaking the law - no (what does that even mean?)Complete incompetence - no (I don't see any 'gross incompetence'. Just mistakes made.No progress 5 years after 9/11 - no. (Seriously, what the **** does this even mean? No progress in breaking up terrorist cells, no progress in diplomacy, no progress in fighting the terror war? No progress in new security measures? Because progress has been made. Whether or not you feel its enough is debatable. To say none has been made reveals that you are a partisan hack.)
Secret prisons - yes (and?)
And the list goes on and on, and yet somehow he is still in office, why ?
Because he is the president of the United States.
I mean, how anyone who makes under 200k per year could endorse Bush is well beyond me. I could be here all day talking about how much of an embarassment, failure and malevolent force he's been, but I'll just point to this simple quote of his.
This is such a ridiculous ****ing stereotype. It pisses me off to no end. I am not wealthy. My family is not wealthy. 50 million or so citizens voted for Bush in 2004. They are not all wealthy. Get over it.(Talking to a room full of wealthy, white people). "I guess you could say this is my base"
[color=red]Oh no. The president made a joke. Let's all scream until we are red in the face. Again, like so much you post, I am forced to ask "whats your point?"
Now, some may dismiss that as harmless joking. I don't. How are you going to be the President of ALL AMERICANS, rich poor and otherwise and even jokingly say the wealthy are your "base". He made it perfectly clear who he goes to bat for, and where his loyalties lie. Bull****. He made a ****ing joke. Thats it.

His wiretaps and other policies were ruled unconstitutional.
Excellent. The system of checks and balances is still doing their job. They felt that Bush oversteps his bounds. So much for the conspiracy theory that Bush controls the courts.

He admitted to running secret CIA prisons.And?

There is evidence of torture taking place against terror suspects.And?

And the list goes on.

Oh, and apparently it's illegal to lie about having sex with your secretary but not illegal to lie about facts to start a war.....Is this being copied off some blog? I hear this every week at Kent. Clinton was impeached for lying before a federal grand jury.
Today if anyone voices an opinion that differs from the US government's they are labeled as a quack or a subversive.The only reason you are labelled as a quack is because you are one. This is an extreme exaggeration. The simple fact is that some of the people opposing the war are doing so for the wrong reasons, and thats a problem. Under Homeland Security anyone can be locked up indefinitely without a trial or even a lawyer. The phone companies, Internet Service Providers and search engines (other than Google) give confidential personal information to the Government about your phone calls, emails, Internet searches and even which web sites you visit. What ever happened to the constitutional rights of privacy, free speech or being considered innocent until proven guilty?What right have I been denied, again? People keep saying this, but I don't see how.
In our economy the rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer and the middle class is disappearing entirely. Oil prices have skyrocketed, many jobs have been outsourced to countries where foreign workers do what Americans have done for pennies on the dollar. In the US, more people than ever can't afford health care or live in poverty. The middle class isn't exactly disappearing. Oil prices sky rocket due to simple economics. Supply and demand. You see, more people want oil, but current supply is running out. Outsourcing amounts to only a small percentage of lost jobs. And the amount of people in this country who can't afford healthcare is not at an all time high. Its not even at a half century high.Stem cell research that could cure and prevent major illnesses and disabilities is opposed by the government for religious reasons. What happened to the separation of Church and government that our founding fathers built into the US Constitution? This is ignorance to to oversimplification of an issue that has complex moral and ethical grounds, as well as religious and scientific. I've lamented over the stem cell issue. I feel it should be funded. But I also recognize it as being more than you would admit.
You think that all these things are just a coincidence? You think we are still truly free?Yes.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:02 PM   #23
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You just don't get it do you ? How can you possible be ok with secret prisons, torture and no legal rights for people just because the US decided they were terrorist based on little to nothing ? Ever heard of the german citizen that happened to ? He was kidnapped from his home and taken to Afghanistan where he was tortured. before the CIA decided they had the wrong guy and dropped him of in eastern europe with nothing, all because he shared a name with a terror suspect.
As for war crimes there has been more than a few examples of bombings of purely civilian targets, and murders commited by US soldiers.

The no progress 5 years after 9/11 was directed at ground zero, a bit unclear perhaps.

And the laws broken referred to things like the wiretaps.

I guess that's all ok though as long as nothing happens to you, why would you care about the rights of others being mistreated right ? As long as your own little universe remains intact I guess it's all ok. With views like that it's no wonder the much of the world hates the US, the kill count between you and the muslim world is something like 100:1 in your favor yet you act like the victims, and seem to think you have the right to do whatever you want to protect yourselves.

Last edited by BigTicket : 09-13-2006 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:17 PM   #24
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We just had a discussion about trying to spread democracy and invade countries where they do not have democracy. What do u guys think?

Because apparently if Iran starts getting nukes then we are giong to invade them. I can completely understand them getting nukes since the USA, a major threat, is invading a country beside them. If iran was taking over Mexico wouldnt u want to build nukes? I would. And plus if we invade them before they invade us then i guess we should invade North Korea right? And if we let lebanon keep invading israel or bombing israel then i guess we should help them too right?

What do u guys think about this? Because ur crazy if u dont think we will have to draft if we invade Iran. Luckily i have dual citizenship in the USA and the UK so i could move there.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:22 PM   #25
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We just had a discussion about trying to spread democracy and invade countries where they do not have democracy. What do u guys think?

Because apparently if Iran starts getting nukes then we are giong to invade them. I can completely understand them getting nukes since the USA, a major threat, is invading a country beside them. If iran was taking over Mexico wouldnt u want to build nukes? I would. And plus if we invade them before they invade us then i guess we should invade North Korea right? And if we let lebanon keep invading israel or bombing israel then i guess we should help them too right?

What do u guys think about this? Because ur crazy if u dont think we will have to draft if we invade Iran. Luckily i have dual citizenship in the USA and the UK so i could move there.

Seriously a draft? Wow, time to buy a few houses because theres gonna be millions of americans moving to Canada.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:26 PM   #26
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Well think about it I mean spreading ourselves across three countries. We are already spreading ourselves thin so its only logical for a draft to happen.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Hawker
If iran was taking over Mexico wouldnt u want to build nukes? I would. And plus if we invade them before they invade us then i guess we should invade North Korea right?


Bad analogy. Iran publicly states that they want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth and nukes are obviously the tool that they want to use to accomplish it. North Korea, although a big threat, and the United States are not on a mission of genocide and self destruction. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad belongs to sect that believes the only way to bring back the Prophet Mohammed is through these goals.

Even France, who hardly sees eye to eye with the US, is scared to ***** of Iran having a nuke and they aren't invading anybody at the moment.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:32 PM   #28
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First off a reason why i dont think iran would bomb europe because of oil. Europe buys a lot of oil from iran and if they bomb europe then no more oil bought from iran then economy sux.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:42 PM   #29
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Bush is the best president we ever had... I'm being sarcastic. We need to check ourselves. Why the hell are we even fighting a war in Iraq. Because of Bush's stupid dicision to start the war, it's not like he can now say "okay, this war sucks, bring everyone back". He fcked up by starting the war and because of that, our troops and innocent citizens of Iraq are getting killed. For what reason? I don't know what the reason is anymore. I thought it was to get the WMDs. But then I hear about other things so we're pretty much in a war about something we hardly are even sure about. Why did we capture Sadam? Shouldn't it be Bin Laden that we're after. If we got Sadam so easily, what's taking so long capturing Bin Laden. He's the one behind 9/11. I honestly believe Bush is full of sh!t. how could it take us this long to find Bin Laden's "Hiding spot".
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:49 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BigTicket
You just don't get it do you ? How can you possible be ok with secret prisons, torture and no legal rights for people just because the US decided they were terrorist based on little to nothing ? Ever heard of the german citizen that happened to ? He was kidnapped from his home and taken to Afghanistan where he was tortured. before the CIA decided they had the wrong guy and dropped him of in eastern europe with nothing, all because he shared a name with a terror suspect.
As for war crimes there has been more than a few examples of bombings of purely civilian targets, and murders commited by US soldiers.

The no progress 5 years after 9/11 was directed at ground zero, a bit unclear perhaps.

And the laws broken referred to things like the wiretaps.

I guess that's all ok though as long as nothing happens to you, why would you care about the rights of others being mistreated right ? As long as your own little universe remains intact I guess it's all ok. With views like that it's no wonder the much of the world hates the US, the kill count between you and the muslim world is something like 100:1 in your favor yet you act like the victims, and seem to think you have the right to do whatever you want to protect yourselves.


Care to respond to the other points I made? I will respond to your post tommorrow or later tonight.
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