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Old 12-08-2008, 04:47 PM   #16
DeuceWallaces
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by steve
But how many of them are going to the Hall of Fame? Only one of them was even an All Star. It's quality over quantity. That Carolina team did end up having six NBA players.

And how many does this UNC team have? Last I checked this was the point of the thread.
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Old 12-08-2008, 06:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
And how many does this UNC team have? Last I checked this was the point of the thread.
Except the point is non applicable because they haven't gone through a third of season yet. So how can anyone accurately judge after a few games when something bad could happen to them and derail the season? Since there's no way to answer or even legitimately discuss the question at this point, it's almost inevitable that the topic will go in another direction.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:24 AM   #18
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by monthh
JellyBean is right, they need to win the championship in order to even be considered.
Not really. Some of the best college teams I've seen didn't win it all. I can think of plenty of NCAA champions that weren't as good as '05 Illinois, '97 Kansas, '91 UNLV, '02 Kansas, '06 UConn, '93 Michigan, '89 Illinois, '88 Oklahoma, '88 Arizona, '01 Arizona, '85 Georgetown, '83 Houston, et

UNLV is a perfect example. They won the title in 1990, came back nearly intact the next year and were even better, only to be upset. They're probably the best college team of my lifetime and lost the national title game. Their average score that year was 97.7-71, they had three lottery picks and just decimated teams. As good as their '90 title team was, they were way better the next year. The national title game was their only loss, and it was a total fluke (unless you believe members of that team threw the game, which I do).

That right there shows you that you don't need to win it all to be considered an all-time great team.

If UNC keeps crushing teams at the rate they're going, averaging 95 points a game and blowing everyone out, and someone comes along and plays an absolutely perfect game in the title game and catches them on one single off-night...I'll still remember them as one of the 10 or so best teams of my lifetime, and arguably the best UNC team I've seen.

As far as the best team ever...they have a chance to be in the discussion as one of the best. Like, top twenty or so of all-time. Which is still pretty special.
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Old 12-15-2008, 12:36 AM   #19
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
Come on, '96 Kentucky had 9 NBA players.
Legitimately, they had, like, five. Nazr Mohammed doesn't really count because he barely played and wasn't an NBA-caliber player for another two years. And the rest were fringe league guys.

Don't get me wrong, that's one of the best, most loaded college teams ever, but the "9 NBA guys" thing is sorta misleading.

With Lawson, Ellington, Green, Hansbrough and Davis, UNC has at least five surefire NBA guys, probably six with Thompson.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:05 PM   #20
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

No it's not. Nine who got drafted, no matter how much they play. Just shows what depth they had.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:18 AM   #21
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

Game, I see your point, the best team doesn't always win. If they had best of 5 series or something, then you probably can say that. March Madness is unpredictable, and after reading Dean Smith's book I really have a different perspective on how hard it is to win a championship. However, I don't think you can be considered the best. Top 10 or 20 or whatever, I can see, and of course they will be ranked over many championship teams, but to me you can't be called the best without winning when it matters most. As I said, in a 5 game series, this UNC team may beat every great team head-to-head, but without a championship, you can't even prove you were the best team that year.

I think the Patriots from last year are the perfect example. They are like that UNLV team, but at the end of the day, they aren't on that list of Super Bowl winners.
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:34 AM   #22
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
No it's not. Nine who got drafted, no matter how much they play. Just shows what depth they had.
That would be like me saying '03 Illinois had six NBA players.

It's technically true, but Brian Cook was the only NBA-caliber player on the roster at that time. Roger Powell and James Augustine were marginal NBA players who weren't even near their peaks as collegiate players yet, and Dee Brown, Deron Williams and Luther Head, as awesome as they were, were also nowhere near being NBA-caliber players for another two years.

Like I said, it was one of the best/deepest/most loaded college teams since UCLA's heyday, but the "nine NBA players" thing is misleading on its surface.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:16 PM   #23
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

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Originally Posted by monthh
Game, I see your point, the best team doesn't always win. If they had best of 5 series or something, then you probably can say that. March Madness is unpredictable, and after reading Dean Smith's book I really have a different perspective on how hard it is to win a championship.
It's not just how hard it is, but that you can be incredibly awesome and you still need luck. Look at the last several champions alone. Kansas last year? I don't think I need to explain their luck. Florida was lucky to survive the Sweet 16 in each of their championships. UNC arguably got an absolute gift against Villanova in the '05 Sweet 16. UConn barely survived Okafor's foul trouble against Duke in the '04 Final Four. Syracuse was handed the '03 title game by KU's 12-of-30 foul shooting.

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However, I don't think you can be considered the best.
Sure you can, unless you're a simpleton. I already explained this: '91 UNLV is the best college team I have ever seen. They did not win the national championship. Thus, you do not have to win a national title to be considered an all-time great team.

Quote:
Top 10 or 20 or whatever, I can see, and of course they will be ranked over many championship teams, but to me you can't be called the best without winning when it matters most.
Well, we're not gonna see a college team better than Alcindor or Walton's UCLA teams anyway, so this is all moot. As far as the "winning when it matters most" thing, you're talking about a single-elimination tournament where a couple of unlucky plays either sinks you or saves you.

Quote:
As I said, in a 5 game series, this UNC team may beat every great team head-to-head, but without a championship, you can't even prove you were the best team that year.
I don't think winning a six-game tournament proves you are the best team. A lot of times, that's true. A lot of times, it's not.

Quote:
I think the Patriots from last year are the perfect example. They are like that UNLV team, but at the end of the day, they aren't on that list of Super Bowl winners.
Football isn't basketball. And even still, if you can't admit that those Patriots were better than one Super Bowl champion throughout history- and I'd sure as hell hope you can admit they're way better than a lot of NFL champions- then that's a major dent in the "you need to win it all to be considered the best" argument.
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Old 05-14-2009, 02:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: 2009 Tar Heels, best college basketball team EVER?

90 UNLV all the way on this one. They were awesome to watch.

Check out this hilarious Greg Paulus article. NC fans will appreciate this one.

http://popcornmuscles.com/2009/05/paulu/
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