Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2008, 02:04 PM   #1
Zan Tabak
Only the finest
 
Zan Tabak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: -lll──lll-
Posts: 3,795
Zan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation here
Default Do the unthinkable?

I've been watching this Raptors team this year. and to me it looks as if they've been over hyped. There's all sorts of glaring holes in this team starting from wing players to their lack of defense.

So I'm proposing we do the unthinkable and blow this whole thing up and trade Chris Bosh and whoever for good young prospects and first rounders and maybe a expiring veterans contract..Cause honestly even if this team was clicking on all cylinders the best I can see them doing is a second round playoff birth and that ain't the championship. So what's the point?.

Look at Portland for inspiration. They traded their 'Star' player(s) and are now reaping the rewards for those moves with a stacked young team.

If the Raps continue on this path and BC's hands are tied with the salary cap, how much can they really improve? And how will that inspire Bosh to want to resign in 2010? I know a lot of you think money will be the factor cause the Raps can offer him the most money. But Bosh is winner and I can't see him wanting to stay in a losing situation. Not to mention the endorsements he'll get south of the border and the proximity to his family.

I say look to move him before he just gets up a leaves. Leaving the Raps with nothing (ala Tracy Mcgrady)
Zan Tabak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 02:46 PM   #2
SESSEL15
High School Starter
 
SESSEL15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 843
SESSEL15 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

I thinking trading Bosh has alot more implications than just talked about. First and foremost, the Fan Base would almost evaporate over night. This franchise needs to step it up big because Bosh isn't the only one getting impatient. I do agree with them being over-hyped though! Theres no way this is a top 4 team. And there is no way a team should be starting 3 power forwards. Andrea is getting in foul trouble but that ain't fault. But back to trading Bosh, thats a huge huge mistake in my eyes. He is the corner-stone of this franchise, and hes only 24 dude! If he was approaching 30, thats a different story. But this guy is still young and improving, there is no need to trade him for projects and draft picks.
SESSEL15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 03:13 PM   #3
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

you make really good points.. although I can't see CB leaving.. yeah he may be frustrated with this team at times but you can tell he is happy to be here, unlike vince carter and antonio davis and those goofs.. but realistically the team will be in great shape the next 2 years considering;

JO 23M
Parker 4.55M
Garbo 4.25M
Graham 2.45M
Solomon, Adams, Moon, Jawai 2.87M

Are all off the books..

I can find lots of ways to spend 37 million dollars on 6 players to make the team MUCH better while still keeping the current players of; Bosh, Bargnani, Calderon, Kapono, Humphries and Ukic. It's all part of BCs plan, the raptors will be a championship calibre team by 2010, and Bosh will recognize the direction this team is going in and re-sign with the raps. book it.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 04:05 PM   #4
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,366
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Bargnani, Calderon, Kapono, Humphries and Ukic.
If those are the players that are being kept to put around Bosh then there will be A LOT of work to do with that money. And it's not like Toronto is a guarantee to lure any free agents alongside Bosh.

With those players, you have 2 starting spots filled:

PF - Bosh
PG - Calderon

And then you hope Bargnani, Humphries and Ukic will continue to develop into a good bench core.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 04:25 PM   #5
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
If those are the players that are being kept to put around Bosh then there will be A LOT of work to do with that money. And it's not like Toronto is a guarantee to lure any free agents alongside Bosh.

With those players, you have 2 starting spots filled:

PF - Bosh
PG - Calderon

And then you hope Bargnani, Humphries and Ukic will continue to develop into a good bench core.

when you have an average of 6 million to spend on 6 players.. you should be able to sign good players to fill the starting roles.. Bargnani will be a legitimate starter after this season.. i hate the skeptics on this guy's game, he has improved so much! Hump and ukic will no doubt be bench obviously..
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 04:57 PM   #6
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,366
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Bargnani will be a legitimate starter after this season
Yea he could, at PF.

Bosh at C, Bargnani at PF is never leading any team to anything significant unless you have All-Stars at the other positions. Bargnani at SF? It works against some teams and fails badly against others. I don't see it working long-term.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 05:05 PM   #7
Trax416
Great young streetballer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 484
Trax416 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

1. So you want us to just give up again and start to rebuild? That makes no sense. Raptors have been in a state of rebuilding for over 10 years now.

2. I don't want to look at Portland for inspiriation for a few reasons. First they aren't going any deeper into the playoffs then we are, thats a fact. Second the only reason the team has such good prospects is because they got VERY lucky with a trade (Rudy) and some key draft picks. The chances this happens to the Raptors are slim to none. Third, Portland isn't going to be challenging for a championship any time in the next 3 years. Eventually all of those up and coming young players will be established NBA players and all demand more money. Do you think the Blazers will keep all that talent when they all start asking for some more cash? no.

We have a ton of money coming off the books in 2010. We have two seasons, two drafts, and a new coach to get through. BC isn't an idiot. Moves will be made in the next two seasons, and players will be signed in 2010.

The next two draft classes are looking like ****ing GARBAGE also. So if we do trade Bosh away and become a lottery team, unless we either the first or second pick, we would be drafting an average scrub.

If we are going to rebuild, we should wait until 2010 when we have deep pockets to do so.
Trax416 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 06:30 PM   #8
Zan Tabak
Only the finest
 
Zan Tabak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: -lll──lll-
Posts: 3,795
Zan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation hereZan Tabak has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Night_Elf
OMG I can't believe what you just said!! You dare call yourself a Raps fan!?!? I hate fans like you who are only down for the good times! You make me sick to my stomach you flip flopping piece of garbage!! If you have any Raptor memorabilia I'll take it from you. A fan like you doesn't deserve to have anything to do with a great team and organization like this! If I ever see you in real life prepare for a slap to your Raptor hating face you putz!!
Your dead!

I'm just trying to make sure our beloved team doesn't end up with nothing in the end. If Bosh leaves in 2010 it's going to be a loooong rebuild. If we move him now, we can have some nice young pieces to build with. and by 2010 could be one of the better young up and coming teams.

To me it's too much of a gamble to 'hope' Bosh will stay. Cause if he leaves we'll be screwed!
Zan Tabak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 06:51 PM   #9
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,659
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trax416

2. I don't want to look at Portland for inspiriation for a few reasons. First they aren't going any deeper into the playoffs then we are, thats a fact. Second the only reason the team has such good prospects is because they got VERY lucky with a trade (Rudy) and some key draft picks. The chances this happens to the Raptors are slim to none. Third, Portland isn't going to be challenging for a championship any time in the next 3 years. Eventually all of those up and coming young players will be established NBA players and all demand more money. Do you think the Blazers will keep all that talent when they all start asking for some more cash? no.


I question a lot of what you said about Portland. they didn't get very lucky with a trade. Rudy was widely known around the basketball world as one of the top European players...they went out and got him. Portland is getting better basically every game, we are not. They are super young, we are not. The 'key draft choices' are what bad teams need to do to get good...they have done it over and over....we have not. Portland could very easily challenge for a title in the next 3 years. They have their core PLUS cap room coming or the use of one of the NBA's largest expiring contracts to trade this year.

As for the money, Portland has pretty much the richest owner in the entire league, so they will pay their core guys yes. As for pieces like Channing Frye, they will let them walk and fill those roster spots.

I hope that we build like Portland has. And I don't disagree with Zan at all. If we're going to just fight for the playoffs, one and done, what's the point. Bosh will just bolt anyway. Get something for him....but then it's up to BC to draft well which has been suspect so far for us.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 07:43 PM   #10
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
but then it's up to BC to draft well which has been suspect so far for us.

but BCs drafting has not been suspect even back in phoenix drafting guys like marion with the 43rd pick or w/e.. dont even say bargnani was a suspect pick i would have picked him first in that draft as well before gay and roy.. and he still has the best ceiling of any player drafted.. its not bcs fault that the draft was terrible
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 08:19 PM   #11
RapsFan
Great college starter
 
RapsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,659
RapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected posterRapsFan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
but BCs drafting has not been suspect even back in phoenix drafting guys like marion with the 43rd pick or w/e.. dont even say bargnani was a suspect pick i would have picked him first in that draft as well before gay and roy.. and he still has the best ceiling of any player drafted.. its not bcs fault that the draft was terrible


Marion was taken 8th overall I believe.

And this is purple blinders. To say that Bargs draft was horrible is a bit much and he doesn't have the highest ceiling! Roy is already an allstar after 2 years in the league. Bargs was a blown pick given we already had a PF and we needed a wing then, and still do now.

Last edited by RapsFan : 12-05-2008 at 08:25 PM.
RapsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 08:53 PM   #12
bluerap
Local High School Star
 
bluerap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,011
bluerap has decent reputation
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

I've thought about trading bosh (because of the fear that he will walk) and moving bargs to the 4. But it wouldn't be to rebuild. I would do it to get better now. But I think bosh is still improving. I used to think bosh was a top 15 player in the league and that was probably his ceiling. Now i think he is a top 5 player and I don't want to give that up.

We are actually pretty close to contending. Think about it. If we had an allstar wing player (just 1 more player - think rjeff or marion) we could be real contenders.

In 2010 we can use jo's money to resign Jo for about 6 and another serious allstar. This is bc's plan.
bluerap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 08:56 PM   #13
RAPSCANWIN
Keeping the Bench Warm
 
RAPSCANWIN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: In a Field of Potatoes
Posts: 915
RAPSCANWIN has decent reputation
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

I'd go for broke this year with Bosh and make whatever trades nessassary to fill our SG and SF positions.

After that id give it til after Xmas next year. If it aint happening by then, then you need to make some hard decisions on Bosh. Id ask him what his intentions were and move accordingly. All behing the scenes of course.
RAPSCANWIN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 08:57 PM   #14
danumber88
I'm a neat monster.
 
danumber88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Toronto, where the Raps lie
Posts: 3,048
danumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation heredanumber88 has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

If Bargnani gets real good this year, the question is

-Do we keep him? and develop him around the Center position?
-Use him as trade bait and get some weakness/holes in the team and keep JO?

Because if he gets good, we cant't keep him at sf position, we can't bench JO nor Bargnani when they good.

We need to trade either JO, Bargnani, that's if Bargnani gets good...

Trading Bosh..
danumber88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 09:58 PM   #15
Trax416
Great young streetballer
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 484
Trax416 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Do the unthinkable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
I question a lot of what you said about Portland. they didn't get very lucky with a trade. Rudy was widely known around the basketball world as one of the top European players...they went out and got him. Portland is getting better basically every game, we are not. They are super young, we are not. The 'key draft choices' are what bad teams need to do to get good...they have done it over and over....we have not. Portland could very easily challenge for a title in the next 3 years. They have their core PLUS cap room coming or the use of one of the NBA's largest expiring contracts to trade this year.

As for the money, Portland has pretty much the richest owner in the entire league, so they will pay their core guys yes. As for pieces like Channing Frye, they will let them walk and fill those roster spots.

I hope that we build like Portland has. And I don't disagree with Zan at all. If we're going to just fight for the playoffs, one and done, what's the point. Bosh will just bolt anyway. Get something for him....but then it's up to BC to draft well which has been suspect so far for us.

It's nice that you THINK these things, but the simple fact is, they aren't going anywhere this year, didn't go anywhere last year, or the year before, or the year before. They won't be going anywhere next year either.

It makes little difference how rich their owner is, he won't just spend needless amounts of money to keep all the young talent in Portland when it grows up and wants more money. There is a reason the Mavs are the only team in the NBA not making a profit. MSLE, the owners of the Raptors, are the second richest sports entertainment group on planet earth, it isn't doing us much good is it?

There is also no guarantee that the young talent matures properly. As much as I like Portland, I have seen little improvement from them over last year. Roy is averaging less assists, less rebounds, more turn overs and only 2 more PPG. Aldrige is averaging less PPG, less assists and less rebounds compared to last year. They have two rookies in their starting line up and Bayless gets no PT.

Yes Portland has talent, but I don't see a championship caliber team even if all were to get a bit better.

People used to talk about the 76ers the exact same way as Portland now. There is no guarantee any of the talent develops into stars, and I see them going down the same road as Philly.

Raptors are already in the middle of rebuilding. Trading away Bosh now would be one of the most idiotic moves I have seen in basketball. We would be a lottery team in two of the worst drafts EVER. We already have a super-star. We have one of the best players in the NBA. Why trade him away and HOPE we can draft a good player from a **** draft class.

When you have a super-star you build a championship caliber team around him. You don't trade him to become a lottery team. We have a top 5 player in the NBA right now, the chances of us drafting another player that good any time in the next half a decade are slim to none.

Not to mention basketball would die in Toronto. Our team is worthless as it is right now, just look at the Forbes article. We need stars to build up the worth and fan base of the franchise. Not to mention if we do trade Bosh and the Leafs become really good in the next 3 years, nobody will be watching basketball at all, it may as well not exist in the city if that happens.

We have a really good PG, one of the best PF's and players in the NBA. We have shooters, and we have a good defensive big. We have pieces to make trades by the deadline, and we have a ton of money coming off the books in 2010. It would make no sense to trade Bosh and be a lottery team for the next 5-6 years. If you think it does, you don't know basketball.
Trax416 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:14 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy