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Old 09-17-2006, 08:31 PM   #16
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Just curious, would you guys call this an acurate comparison?

RB=SG
QB=CT/PF (dominant bigman in either case)

Because by that logic, it would be close, but Vick might be the right choice. With a position lik QB, like a good bigman, it is much harder to find a quality, or at least solid, player. Much harder than it is to find a good back or a good scoring guard. It's sort of like in basketball, where it might make sense to take the third best CT in the league, as opposed to the best shooting guard. You would have to go with the rarer of the players.

Mind you, I don't know a ton about football, so I may be way off, but I think it makes enough sense.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:31 PM   #17
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Cunningham was better than Vick. not as fast. But he rushed for more yards I believe and was a far better pure passer.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RiseUpAtlanta
My statement still holds validity. Vick has led his team farther than LT has taken his (NFC championship game).

Also, the win-loss record with him in the lineup can't be ignored. His won-loss record speaks as much about his reliability as his positive/negative plays.

I also give you also the example of Barry Sanders...there were many more "reliable" backs than him in terms of getting positive yardage every down...doesn't mean they were better backs because for every 3 or 4 losses Sanders would bust a big one on you. You'd pass on Barry Sanders for John Riggins?

Umm he's a Cowboy fan. Dont put it past him!
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:35 PM   #19
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Emmitt>Barry
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:39 PM   #20
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Would Vick take his team as far if he was in the AFC? You might want to take that into account. Going against the Patriots, Colts, Steelers is a little tougher than playing the Rams.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:40 PM   #21
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Drew Brees doesnt even play there no more. SD didnt want him two times. One time they kept him, the 2nd time they peaced him out. So he cant be used into this equation at all.

The deal INCLUDED Brees. He HAS to be involved in the discussion of who got the better end of the deal. It has nothing to do with who the better player is, obviously, but it does effect who got the better end of the deal. Brees is a good NFL QB.

A good NFL QB + the best RB in football > a playmaking QB who is arguably not even top five at his position. IMO he's not.

McNabb
Manning
Hasslebeck
Brady
Carson

Top five.

You see the dazzling runs & his cannon arm, but what you don't see is the plays he doesn't make. The ones a QB should be making. He is a damn good football player, but many of you think higher of him just because of his highlights.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Mav
Would Vick take his team as far if he was in the AFC? You might want to take that into account. Going against the Patriots, Colts, Steelers is a little tougher than playing the Rams.

Come on not this crap. Weak argument.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:46 PM   #23
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Why not GOBB? Look I like Vick, maybe not as much as you or the starter of the thread. But if he is going to put so much emphasis on Vick going farther in the playoffs. Then I don't think it's out of bounds to mention the level of competition.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:46 PM   #24
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He beat the Packers in Lambeau, that's a TOUGH thing to do in the playoffs.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:48 PM   #25
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"You see the dazzling runs & his cannon arm, but what you don't see is the plays he doesn't make"

I see the plays he doesnt make. I also see plays he makes and nobody else does. A lot of them.

Getting the ball down the field is always more important than how it got there. If he were out there going 4-12 yearly id get the "You cant win that way" argument but fact is his team does just fine with him and hes been to a title game. Lot of "real" QBs out there cant say that.

Hes unconventional. But sure as hell not ineffective.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:50 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
He beat the Packers in Lambeau, that's a TOUGH thing to do in the playoffs.

That is very tough to do. But the year they went to the NFC championship they beat the 8-8 Rams to get there.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
The deal INCLUDED Brees. He HAS to be involved in the discussion of who got the better end of the deal. It has nothing to do with who the better player is, obviously, but it does effect who got the better end of the deal. Brees is a good NFL QB.

A good NFL QB + the best RB in football > a playmaking QB who is arguably not even top five at his position. IMO he's not.

McNabb
Manning
Hasslebeck
Brady
Carson

Top five.

You see the dazzling runs & his cannon arm, but what you don't see is the plays he doesn't make. The ones a QB should be making. He is a damn good football player, but many of you think higher of him just because of his highlights.


Who cares if he is not top 5 in your eyes? Did you see what Kblaze posted about what Vick did today? It kills your argument. You continue to look at Vick and wanting a QB like the 5 you named. You wont find that. You find a guy who is a playmaker who defenses try to contain, focus on.

Drew Brees doesnt play for SD anymore so how is he included in this deal again? He had 2 good years in SD. And SD didnt even WANT him two times. Why ignore that when evaluating who got the better deal? SD didnt want Brees. He played very well the year they made this known and put them in a bind but they go out and trade for Philliph Rivers. Then had no 2nd thoughts letting him go to N.O. None. So again why must i include/factor him into the equation again? He's not even apart of the franchise meanwhile Vick is.

I dont see Atlanta drafting a replacement. I did with SD. And my whole position is impact. Both players have impact and Vick probably has more on the basis he handles the pigskin more than LT does. Forget stats because i can point out stats that has players with better numbers than LT. But LT isnt called the best back because of NUMBERS.

Both franchises made out good because they have thier franchise QB. Atlanta with Vick is a playoff contender and now that defense has really stepped up and is lookin like a top 10 D. Atlanta probably has the best rushing offense in the game with Dunn & Vick. In hindsight you judge a trade by how well the franchises are off after the fact...not by how that player ranks when you are dealing with a special player like Vick.
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Old 09-17-2006, 08:59 PM   #28
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Only vick could have winning his division to get a bye used against him. So if they lost more games and he had to play the extra game that would have been better? Thought it was all about winning. They put up like 50 on the Rams. vick had a few Tds and ran for over 120 yards I think. how does it take anything from him that he did it after a bye week they earned by playing well?
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:00 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine


many of you think higher of him just because of his highlights.

I'll agree with you on this part, Vick has many protractors because of his ESPN-highlight runs. However I have to disagree with you regarding his negative plays, of which every QB in the league is going to have some of. I don't know if you saw the game today, but Vick has grown leaps and bounds in his ability to manage the game. I saw him throw the ball away when he didn't have anything working, whereas in the past he would have forced it or ran into a crowd/fumbled/taken an unnecessary hit. He seems to be more mature this year in terms of knowing when the defense plain has you beat. Falcons won 14 to 3, and Vick actually led the team on to 4 other possible scoring drives, but the kicker missed the FG's.

If I were picking today, I would take Vick over LT because I think Vick has more overall impact on the game than LT, and that's no disrespect to LT, but I just think a multidimensional QB brings more to the table than a multidimensional RB. How many times in a game can Vick pull it down and run? 10? You'll never see LT throw 10 passes in a game.
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Old 09-17-2006, 09:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent Mav
Why not GOBB? Look I like Vick, maybe not as much as you or the starter of the thread. But if he is going to put so much emphasis on Vick going farther in the playoffs. Then I don't think it's out of bounds to mention the level of competition.

Because he faces tough defenses in the regular season & postseason. As mentioned beating GB in GB in the winter was huge. And even tho the Eagles beat them he still kept the Falcons in the game. Wasnt an easy win for Philly.

Pitt and NE got defenses but so do Carolina, TB, Philly right? Thats who Vick goes up against. Not so much offense. How much better have the Colts been during the seasons Atlanta made the playoffs? They are nothing more than the Stl Rams in the AFC.

And if we mention now? Sure they got that defense now to a respectable level...LAST YEAR. But for the most part? It was an absolute joke. Atlanta D has added a quality pass rusher DE and it looks really good even tho its early. Long rant short teams like Indy are good but not as great as you like to make them to be imo. What have they really done the last 5yrs? Lets talk postseason at that. Not reg.
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