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Old 09-22-2006, 11:23 AM   #16
Crazy Style
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Who was in the Finals last year, the Mavs! So I think we know who's the better team.
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Old 09-22-2006, 02:40 PM   #17
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So, now you see Lakers and Mavs are not SO far. The Mavs are surely better, but should LA add/find 2-3 good role players, things can really change.
And I don't think the Mavs has big room for improvement: don't expect to win it all 3 times in a raw, just because you've been once in the finals. It's not even a lock the WCF for you (Spurs and Suns are to be considered). But we'll see.

But the Mavs have room for improvement. Maybe some of the moves they've made this summer will answer that. Or perhaps just being together another year with just supporting players changing is improvement enough. The sign of being an elite team is the fact that you don't need much improvement. The fact that the Lakers have plenty of room for improvement shows that they are that far apart at this time.

Would the Mavs be comfortable playing the Lakers in the playoffs after the regular season? Yes, I think so. One game was a whipping by the Lakers. One took a bull halfcourt 3 from Kobe to win. And the Mavs won the 3rd one handily. In a 7 game series the Mavs would be the better team and it would show. But you'd have to get past the Suns for us to find out.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:17 PM   #18
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But you'd have to get past the Suns for us to find out.

I don't know if that was meant to be a jab or not, but that made me laugh.
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Old 09-22-2006, 10:48 PM   #19
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I'd take Howard over Odom. Odom could be better if he reached his potential. He showed great signs in the playoffs, but so did Howard. I think it depends what kind of team you are trying to build, and what kind of role player your team needs. Howard is a great fit for the Mavs, and Odom compliments Kobe pretty well.
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Old 09-23-2006, 10:27 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by BlondeBomber41
Couldnt of said it better myself.

Hell no the Lakers arent better, not even close. I would take Howard over Odom and Damp/Diop over Kwame/Mihm ANY DAY. I would take Dirk over Kobe anyday, dominant franchise big men are alot harder to come by then high scoring SG's.

lol....I laugh at your comments.....you would rather take a big that can shoot but cant rebound or play defense well...OVER....THE BEST IN THE LEAUGE...
lol...thats funny....really...correct me if i am wrong but wasnt it..KOBE..who when they played dallas...scored 62 points throughout 3 quarters and the mavs team failed to score 60???in that game forget about the lakers bieng better than the mavs..but is KOBE better than the mavs???in that game he was...but no he is not overall...its okay what you mavs fans think about the Mavericks and the lakers....yeah you guys did get farther than us in the playoffs...the question is will you guys do so once agian???? I dont think so...
I see the Lakers doing BIG things this upcoming season...then i want to hear you mavs fans talk all this jibberish on how the mavs are better than the lakers................
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Old 09-23-2006, 12:43 PM   #21
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yeah you guys did get farther than us in the playoffs...the question is will you guys do so once agian???? I dont think so...
I see the Lakers doing BIG things this upcoming season...then i want to hear you mavs fans talk all this jibberish on how the mavs are better than the lakers................

Yes I do think we'll go farther once again. I see the Lakers improving some this year. But still fighting for one of the lower playoff spots. Come back after the season and we'll talk about who's better then. If the Lakers do as good as you think, then you should have no problem. Or come back during the season. It'll make for good debate.

Last edited by Silent Mav : 09-23-2006 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 09-23-2006, 01:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by MJ(Mean John)
lol....I laugh at your comments.....you would rather take a big that can shoot but cant rebound or play defense well...OVER....THE BEST IN THE LEAUGE...
lol...thats funny....really...correct me if i am wrong but wasnt it..KOBE..who when they played dallas...scored 62 points throughout 3 quarters and the mavs team failed to score 60???in that game forget about the lakers bieng better than the mavs..but is KOBE better than the mavs???in that game he was...but no he is not overall...its okay what you mavs fans think about the Mavericks and the lakers....yeah you guys did get farther than us in the playoffs...the question is will you guys do so once agian???? I dont think so...
I see the Lakers doing BIG things this upcoming season...then i want to hear you mavs fans talk all this jibberish on how the mavs are better than the lakers................
You are fcuking stupid! The Mans are definite contenders. The Lakers are not. Even if the Lakers made the playoffs, they wouldn't go anywhere. They can't beat:
-Houston
-Dallas
-San Antonio
-Phoenix
-Denver
-New Orleans
-Los Angelos (Clippers)
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Old 09-23-2006, 01:19 PM   #23
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i honestly can't believe that there are so many lakers fans who talk the way they do. Do you want to talk about who's better? lets look at the stat lines

last year Dirk was better than kobe in:
FG%,3PT%,FT%,rpg,bpg,topg,pfpg

kobe beat dirk in:
mpg,ppg,apg,spg

and your comments obviously show you are another one of those uneducated lakers fans when refering to dirks ability to rebound and play D, dirk has always been one of the leagues top rebounders. And it has merely been the media (*cough* Barkley *cough*) who has always said dirk can't play D. Over his eight years in the league he has an avg of 1spg and over 1bpg. Kobe hasn't come close to that, but you would probably bring up that kobe gets more steals, well a more accurate interpretation of steals per game is steal to turn over ratio per game, and kobe loses that one to dirk as well.

I am surprised that you still dont think dirk plays defense since this year the media, when speaking of dirk, always talked about how he was finally playing "hard nosed basketball and good defense." I guess you are a media leming when you want to be then put your hands over your ears and yell "LA LA LA LA" when you dont want to be.

Its funny. I have been in your position. The mavs used to be bad. And I used to always make the stupid comments "just watch this year, we're gonna be great!" But at least when i was in highschool I had a some of a grip on reality and didn't go around to the bulls forum and tell them the mavs would beat them next year (i know the mavs aren't comparable to the bulls dynasty, dont get your panties in a wad)
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Old 09-23-2006, 02:35 PM   #24
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Its funny. I have been in your position. The mavs used to be bad. And I used to always make the stupid comments "just watch this year, we're gonna be great!" But at least when i was in highschool I had a some of a grip on reality and didn't go around to the bulls forum and tell them the mavs would beat them next year (i know the mavs aren't comparable to the bulls dynasty, dont get your panties in a wad)

soog, we try not to speak of those years anymore.
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Old 09-25-2006, 01:19 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by KnickFan4Life
You are fcuking stupid! The Mans are definite contenders. The Lakers are not. Even if the Lakers made the playoffs, they wouldn't go anywhere. They can't beat:
-Houston
-Dallas
-San Antonio
-Phoenix
-Denver
-New Orleans
-Los Angelos (Clippers)

wow dude thats obviously too much opinion in there. they can beat houston, New orleans, LAC, and Denver...and with some time maybe phoenix.

Dallas they beat a lot but that doesnt make LA better i admit.

I think Dallas is better.
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Old 09-25-2006, 07:08 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
See now that was the response I was attempting to encourage from my post... an honest somewhat realistic assesment of the arguments in 2 different threads in here.

Happy you appreciated :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
I said somewhat realistic because you still seem to be somewhat blinded by the dynasty from a few years back.

Probably so :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
The lakers had a few miraculous games in the playoffs. They also drew a team in the phoenix suns that they matched up very well with.

I disagree with that. LA had a strong finish before the PO, they lost a lot of close games due to inexperience, wasting double digit lead a lot of times. Nevertheless, they've beaten big teams such SA, Detroit, Dallas, Miami in the RS. Moreover the Suns were REALLY NOT a good fit. We got over them only once in the RS, and only when they were trying to face us instead of the Kings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
The mavs lost two heart breakers in the finals that could have made them the champs. There is a HUGE difference between almost having a first round upset, and losing two heart breakers in teh finals.

Completely agree. In fact, last season Dallas team was head and shoulders above LA. BUT I wanted to stress there were also some good signs that LA was coming.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
stringing together conditional statements to make a point is about as rediculous as ...

I was not saying "if... if... so we're close to Dallas". Instead it was "if... if... so Dallas would have faced us instead of Phoenix" and I was wondering if you would be so happy, as YOU are a good fit for us. Don't forget Phil was saying that the team he would have wanted to face in the 1st round was Dallas, as we played so well in the matchups (and you had no answer for Kobe)

Quote:
Originally Posted by soog
Even if you beat pho and even if you beat the clips to meet us in the wcf... it still would not be an on par achievement.

I agree, I was not trying to state that.
My point is: it's not so unbelievable that Kobe+Odom are same level or better than Dirk+Howard, and even that the C position is almost equal.
The difference is now that you have better complement players (and Terry is not really a complement).
Should the Lakers find a way (difficult but not impossible) to make K.Brown a respectable starter, Smush, Radmanovic great specialists, we would be ready to compete with Dallas, San Antonio and Phoenix.
Last season, we were really a big step behind.
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:29 AM   #27
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Don't forget Phil was saying that the team he would have wanted to face in the 1st round was Dallas, as we played so well in the matchups (and you had no answer for Kobe)

I take this as nothing more than Jackson's ongoing dislike for Cuban and Dallas. Just planting the seeds for his future mind games.

Quote:
Should the Lakers find a way (difficult but not impossible) to make K.Brown a respectable starter, Smush, Radmanovic great specialists, we would be ready to compete with Dallas, San Antonio and Phoenix

Actually not a bad take at all. But you need a little more than those things. There is still the matter of depth and role players. And Odom is probably better than I think he is, he is also probably not as good as you think he is. Of course I'm sure the same thing could be said about Josh Howard. Another point is , and I'm not sure if it would be called chemistry or not, how are the Lakers as a "team". I think , and this is my opinion only, that some players are scared or dislike Kobe. I just don't see that unit ever pulling together as a close knit team.
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Old 09-25-2006, 10:38 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Shark
My point is: it's not so unbelievable that Kobe+Odom are same level or better than Dirk+Howard, and even that the C position is almost equal.
The difference is now that you have better complement players (and Terry is not really a complement).
Should the Lakers find a way (difficult but not impossible) to make K.Brown a respectable starter, Smush, Radmanovic great specialists, we would be ready to compete with Dallas, San Antonio and Phoenix.
Last season, we were really a big step behind.

Actually, I think it is that hard to believe. The Lakers rode Kobe all the way to the playoffs, then to a thrilling 7 game serries with the eventual Western Conference runner-ups, Phoenix. However, the team they played is not the same team they will face this year, with a healthy Thomas and a supposedly healthy Amare (I'll buy it when I see it) and a PG who can actually play point to back up Nash, Marcus Banks. The Lakers made some nice adds in Vlad and uh.. well, they added Vlad.

The truth is, i don't see the Lakes making enough moves since Shaq left to be able to compete. They traded an athletic swingman who could run with Kobe away for a plod footed "center" who might have the worse hands of any pro basketball player in the world today. Seriously, have you seen him try to catch the ball??

Kobe is probably the best one on one player in the world. He does play D and can single handedly win games. I doubt the other 4 bodies on the court. Until there's significant changes at PG, SF and C the Lakers will be a 1 and a half man show while Dallas is 8 or 9 players deep.
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Old 09-25-2006, 03:18 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Silent Mav


Another point is , and I'm not sure if it would be called chemistry or not, how are the Lakers as a "team". I think , and this is my opinion only, that some players are scared or dislike Kobe. I just don't see that unit ever pulling together as a close knit team.

They started all coming together at the end of the season and Kobe made everyone better in the playoffs.

and in the reg season too. I mean he averaged 4.5 assists..dont forget Guys like Kwame kept missing layups and ruined kobe's chances of getting more assists.
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Old 09-25-2006, 05:02 PM   #30
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and in the reg season too. I mean he averaged 4.5 assists..dont forget Guys like Kwame kept missing layups and ruined kobe's chances of getting more assists.

I can relate about losing assists. Have you ever seen Dampier trying to catch the ball? It's very painful to watch.
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