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Old 09-19-2006, 11:25 PM   #16
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i guess you're right, I might be overexaggerating on the shooting part, but what I'm saying is...every team has that exceptional long range/midrange shooter who can create his own shot. and if we give up Bibby, who is going to make up for that lack? please do not say brad miller
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:27 PM   #17
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He might be the emotional leader but I don't want him leading my team. I like him as a player but he is more a second or third option who can score 20 PPG than a number 1 option. He's not a franchise player. Yeah he's been here years but if he costs too much this offseason he's going to sign somewhere else and we'll lose him for nothing. I think Bibby did the best job he could leading this team before Artest, but that still doesn't mean he did a good job leading this team. It is Artest's team IMO. You didn't see huddles during free throws before Artest. You didn't see guys playing with heart before Artest. You didn't see the team playing D before Artest. You didn't see this team playing well at all before Artest, if Bibby was a real leader he would've had the team forget about Peja and trying hard on D. If Bibby was a real leader he would've done something to encourage Peja. The real leader of this team was Webber, I like Bibby a lot he's one of my favorite players but he's not close to the leader of this team. He just doesn't have those qualities. He's a good lockerroom guy but he doesn't lead one, you catch my drift?
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Old 09-19-2006, 11:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus™
i guess you're right, I might be overexaggerating on the shooting part, but what I'm saying is...every team has that exceptional long range/midrange shooter who can create his own shot. and if we give up Bibby, who is going to make up for that lack? please do not say brad miller

Miami didn't have that. Most of Bibby's 3s are pull up 3s or 3s off a pick set by Brad, Reef, or Kenny. Sometimes he'll hit a kick out 3. I don't really see how that is creating his own shot from 3. The guys who create their own 3s are Kobe/TMac/Ginobili/Ray A./Artest(even though he didn't it it nearly as well as the other guys in this list).

But no Miami didn't have that guy. They had someone who can drive/get to the free throw line(Wade) and they had a low post presence they could give the ball to and he would usually get 2 points(Shaq). They had Walker but he doesn't hit a lot of 3s he just takes them because there are no 4s.

Eventually jump shots don't fall. You need to have slashers/post up guys you can get high percentage shots from and free throws from. You need jump shooters who can hit open shots/3s that they get from the post up guys and slashers(Miller and Martin). Iverson can slash and get to the free throw line and Artest can post up/slash. Also don't forget Artest was a pretty good 3 point shooter before he was traded here, he's been workin on his game pretty hard all summer. We also don't know how Musselman will like Bibby.

I don't have anything against Mike but if you get offered Iverson for him and not too much else you do it IMO. Iverson/Martin/Artest/somebody decent/Miller probably gets you to the WCF. Iverson/Martin/Artest/a good defender/Miller gets you to the finals. While the same MIGHT be true with Bibby in place of Iverson, it's not for sure.
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:11 AM   #19
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my thing is getting KG would be the same thing as ivy..... both are old and both are becoming desperate to win as fast as they can..... but u guys would take KG for bibby ne day........
i would love iverson on the kings. i love bibby... it was he who turned this organisation around ...he brought real point guard skills to the kings.... but if theirs an opp. to recieve one of the greatest point guards n the league for bibby who i may add isnt an allstar.... doesnt put up leadership stats lets the defense depict his game...thus the spurs series..... he didnt even score...it was artest and bonzi who "lead" the team.. sac is a dead team now.... we dnt run and gun the way we use to... ppl use to thrive to watch us and dallas play ..... iverson looovvves to run the ball and now we have young guys who like to run aswell......iverson has better passing and ball handling skills than bibby.... bibby can shoot better and hit more open shots but... thats y you have a team.... teams pull together when there "leader" is cold.... thats the only reason y iverson looks bad to ppl... he didnt have a team so when he missed shots.... his team couldnt help them because they are a bunch of scrubs

to me philly even looks better with bibby on the squad and they could finally have a team that makes sense

dalembert/alan henderson
webber/kenny/bradley
kyle kover/mat barnes
igua./willie green/
bibby/olie/

im not familiar with their roster like that but the team makes sense now and now every one can have a chance at the ball because ivy's gone.... think about it
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:59 AM   #20
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I see Bibby do this a lot: He runs the ball up the court, stands in front of his man for a while, does a pump fake/shake and pulls to take the J. And it's not like he can't drive inside, he can do it efficiently just not as good as AI can. Someone tell me what AI brings to the Kings that we need, besides defense?
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus™
I see Bibby do this a lot: He runs the ball up the court, stands in front of his man for a while, does a pump fake/shake and pulls to take the J. And it's not like he can't drive inside, he can do it efficiently just not as good as AI can. Someone tell me what AI brings to the Kings that we need, besides defense?


That's called jacking up a bad shot, not creating a 3... Bibby is probably better at driving now that he's lost 18 pounds but Iverson breaks ankles and creates off the dribble. He can bring his team back singlehandedly, just imagine what he'll do with Artest, Martin, and Miller...
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:57 AM   #22
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Quote:
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That's called jacking up a bad shot, not creating a 3... Bibby is probably better at driving now that he's lost 18 pounds but Iverson breaks ankles and creates off the dribble. He can bring his team back singlehandedly, just imagine what he'll do with Artest, Martin, and Miller...


not pass them the ball?
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Old 09-20-2006, 12:10 PM   #23
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and thats what stars do dnt they??? jordan had a great "team" never passed...... kobe...he's where u put me...tracey.... thats another one lol....the nba's greatest point guard lol he hogs

but i think ivy would fall n place he will pass musselman is a guy who doesnt play around like that........ if i certain play is called for a pass and ivy takes it upon himself to try score n traffic musselman will PULL HIM OUT! i feel as if ivy will subject him self to the team by any means neccessary

ur right brad... all bibby does is jack up threes on fast breaks i use to hell at the tv when he's on a fast break.........BIBBY PASS BIBBY PASS............every one knows ivy is a fast break kingg and he finds ways to get the contact and still score........... iverson is not as half as good as bibby when it comes to freethrows but ivy is around 71%
my thing is we still look like queens esspecially because bonzi's gone so we would need to change our identity alot more to a more rugged team...and bringin in iverson would help

targus u asked what does ivy bring to the team besides defense??
well DEFENSE IS THE KEY FACTOR ABOUT THIS TRADE BUT!! :) he brings leardership qualities.... he's also a vet. he has bin to the finals which none of our players have ever bin except big nasty williamson.... and he doesnt count because he cant contribute to the team like that any more......iverson is an nba allstar so he would bring in the money to the franchise..... iverson is a franchise player so he brings more hype to the team.... meaning we can finally get more tv coverage ....also he also brings tru point guard skills bibby is more of a shooting guard..... ivy creates for his team.... the only reason y bibby avrg about 7 assist per game was because of the princeston offensive and it required persons to create their own shots off the dribble and we had a team that could of shot the ball ... so it was jus a matter of bibby simply passing the ball. iverson would be a major uphill move n my eyes and we finally would get rid of kenny thomas (who is a good player mind u) but he just doesnt cope with our system to me.... we would get a guy n the name of steven hunter....... blocks shots rebounds can hit the i8 footer hook shot or turn around jumper and he's very athletic....can run the floor and rattles the rim when he dunks that trade if went down would make us instant contenders.... and all eyes will be on the kings
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perezident
and thats what stars do dnt they??? jordan had a great "team" never passed...... kobe...he's where u put me...tracey.... thats another one lol....the nba's greatest point guard lol he hogs

but i think ivy would fall n place he will pass musselman is a guy who doesnt play around like that........ if i certain play is called for a pass and ivy takes it upon himself to try score n traffic musselman will PULL HIM OUT! i feel as if ivy will subject him self to the team by any means neccessary

ur right brad... all bibby does is jack up threes on fast breaks i use to hell at the tv when he's on a fast break.........BIBBY PASS BIBBY PASS............every one knows ivy is a fast break kingg and he finds ways to get the contact and still score........... iverson is not as half as good as bibby when it comes to freethrows but ivy is around 71%
my thing is we still look like queens esspecially because bonzi's gone so we would need to change our identity alot more to a more rugged team...and bringin in iverson would help

targus u asked what does ivy bring to the team besides defense??
well DEFENSE IS THE KEY FACTOR ABOUT THIS TRADE BUT!! :) he brings leardership qualities.... he's also a vet. he has bin to the finals which none of our players have ever bin except big nasty williamson.... and he doesnt count because he cant contribute to the team like that any more......iverson is an nba allstar so he would bring in the money to the franchise..... iverson is a franchise player so he brings more hype to the team.... meaning we can finally get more tv coverage ....also he also brings tru point guard skills bibby is more of a shooting guard..... ivy creates for his team.... the only reason y bibby avrg about 7 assist per game was because of the princeston offensive and it required persons to create their own shots off the dribble and we had a team that could of shot the ball ... so it was jus a matter of bibby simply passing the ball. iverson would be a major uphill move n my eyes and we finally would get rid of kenny thomas (who is a good player mind u) but he just doesnt cope with our system to me.... we would get a guy n the name of steven hunter....... blocks shots rebounds can hit the i8 footer hook shot or turn around jumper and he's very athletic....can run the floor and rattles the rim when he dunks that trade if went down would make us instant contenders.... and all eyes will be on the kings


Exactly, most of this stuff is true especially the stuff about Iverson being a leader and the part where you talked about his experience.

Another thing Iverson has that Bibby doesn't is arrogance. I want that on this team kind of like the bad boy pistons had(maybe not as good as them but still...). Don't you remember when AI walked over Tyron Lue? I love stuff like that. Also remember when Miller was compared to Bill Laimbeer and he would knock people down with hard fouls? Fight with Shaq? We need THAT Brad Miller getting some more players like Iverson who are all heart and toughness could help. I want to see Ron Artest saying things like we can win the championship, I want to see him locking people down and beating them in the post while Iverson is slashin and scoring and demoralizing the other team and Brad is pissing them off with hard fouls.

Also we would be on national TV a lot. NBA fans LOVE to watch AI, while the networks also like to focus on Artest. They would love to focus on our team.

Don't forget that the Maloofs would make millions of dollars in jersey sales. Seriously, there are millions of kings fans in California, some of us will buy the Iverson jersey. There are also tons of Iverson fans in the US who would get his kings jersey. That would be crazy makin em all that money.

I mean don't get me wrong I like Bibby. He brings a lot of positives to our team, he is a clutch shooter and a good shooter. When he wants to create shots for people he's a good passer. He's one of the best Pick&Roll PGs in the league although that part of his game was a lot more dangerous with Webber. He's a good guy in the lockerroom who doesn't judge and doesn't cause problems but that's also part of the reason he's not a leader. I just think Iverson is a better player, a Hall of Fame calibre player, and I think he would help this team more than Bibby.
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Old 09-20-2006, 01:45 PM   #25
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^ point blank ivy is the better player all around what i like about him is when he's hot hes' hot .....unlike bibby when he's hot.... and they do a defensive switch he gets shut down like a resturant not making any money ... thats what i dnt like about bibby he lets the defense pick him right out of the game and we dnt need that.... we need the "leader" to pick us out of slumps and keep us n games... so.. i feel as if iverson would fit better... i jus wish u guys felt the same way men.... its iverson were talking about here.... i wonder if u gus understand that.......this isnt bibby for strawberry or francis ....or damon staud. .... this is iverson....IVY!!! THE ANSWER TO ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS LOL i'm all for it
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Old 09-20-2006, 02:35 PM   #26
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Perez. your enthusiasm off the charts! I don't believe there is any discussion going on among the Philly and Sac Gms regarding a trade like this. It's merely a case of an obscure pundit grasping for something to write about. It would be interesting, though, to see AI and his entourage (attendants and bodyguards) as they hit Sacramento's hot "night spots" --LOL.

Another drawback to this trade revolves around the fact that Mike B. and his father are estranged and have been for years. I have no idea whether Bibby would have a voice regardidng whom he might be traded to.

I have mixed feelings about Allen Iverson as a team player. When other players see one dude taking all the shots, they tend to slack off--why break your ---for nothing. With Artest and Bibby jacking up 60 shots a game, there wouldn't be to many happy campers on the court. We all know how "cold" Iverson can be at times and a couple of years ago, Artest missed 73 out of 104 shots in a PO Series between Detroit and Indy.

Coach Musselman is adamant about conducting organized practice sessions. I don't think Iverson would like that at all--I've heard that he attends few practice sessions. If Iverson came on board, we would have to bring Adelman back.
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:03 PM   #27
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umm buck first of all i didnt make this stuff up i gave the link out....... and this was jus an idea of mine..jus adding pieces to the puzzle to make such a trade like this and i wanted to get a feed back to see what u guys think


in the philly system under mo cheeks .. a coach who allows his team to be their own coach..... all the plays were iverson... thats y he took all the shots... (so that should kill all of the ..ohhh he'll hog the ball gimics) he was the team only because they werent winning u guys are complaing about him takin all the shots. But if he was to come into musselmans system i'm sure he'd understand that no. 1 this isnt his team....no.2 he wont take all of the shots.... but he will avrg if not the same amount as bibby did or even more .. nothing will change he's jus replacing bibby.... onli thing steals will go up points and assist..... all for the better of the team n my view and lastly..... bibby is not a STAR.... only in sacramento.... he never made the allstar team....jus start making the playoffs when he reached here because the "TEAM" was solid not because of bibby........ because we made the playoffs with white chocolate and bibby is by far better point guard jay will would ever be.... dnt get me wrong bibby is the man!!!! but u cant diss iverson for him... thats like the the pistons wanting to trade mj for dumars.... how could u diss mj for dumars??? even though mj is better than dumars ...hence iverson is better than bibby so y u wanna diss iverson for bibby??? a player who has proven himself countless times..... and i'm sure bibby wants webber to end his career with him... every one was for trading webber execpt bibby....christie was for it vlade Peja esspecially so he would see it as bibby to webber again.... mocking the stocktan to malone duo
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:37 PM   #28
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bibby n iverson r both weak kobe is who every team needs
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Old 09-20-2006, 03:51 PM   #29
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Quote:
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bibby n iverson r both weak kobe is who every team needs


And what's that got to do with anything?
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Old 09-20-2006, 04:22 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaBbY DaViS
bibby n iverson r both weak kobe is who every team needs
ass hole.... every team needs a team u moron.....which the lakers dnt have... its a one man band.... go screw your self crazy.... i hate u laker fans coming in here talkin smack... they lakers are dead beats now u guys use to be good now ur just scrubs like the raptors knicks and bobcats not to mention atl....
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