Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-01-2009, 02:16 AM   #1
DoubleTech
NBA lottery pick
 
DoubleTech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: T-Dot
Posts: 4,265
DoubleTech is a pretty well-respected posterDoubleTech is a pretty well-respected posterDoubleTech is a pretty well-respected posterDoubleTech is a pretty well-respected poster
Arrow Why talk about individual defense?

roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?
DoubleTech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 02:25 AM   #2
Godfather
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: The United States of America
Posts: 6,041
Godfather is a pretty well-respected posterGodfather is a pretty well-respected posterGodfather is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleTech
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?

Defense is a huge part of the game son. Look at the last ten years in the league...There isn't a single champion that isn't a great defensive team.

I don't understand your Artest point. Ben Wallace is a Kwame Brown type player, but with his dominant defense he is a future hall of famer.

Know what I mean?
Godfather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 02:25 AM   #3
Kblaze8855
Titles are overrated
 
Kblaze8855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: I love me some me.
Posts: 12,639
Kblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginableKblaze8855 is the Michael Jordan of posters with the best reputation imaginable
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

Nah. Just about 10 who get attention for it. You will rarely hear about Adrian Griffin or Lindsey Hunter. But they exist.
Kblaze8855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 03:54 AM   #4
FinishHim!
I dunk on kids
 
FinishHim!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,932
FinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this board
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Godfather
Defense is a huge part of the game son. Look at the last ten years in the league...There isn't a single champion that isn't a great defensive team.

I don't understand your Artest point. Ben Wallace is a Kwame Brown type player, but with his dominant defense he is a future hall of famer.

Know what I mean?
Ben Wallace is not a future HOF.
FinishHim! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:00 AM   #5
Biddy77
Keyless' gimmick acct
 
Biddy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,714
Biddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Nah. Just about 10 who get attention for it. You will rarely hear about Adrian Griffin or Lindsey Hunter. But they exist.

exactly.

the coaches and scouts all know who those guys are, even though the fans don't. if it's not a block or a steal, the majority of fans aren't going to notice or care about it.

Bayless went 0 of 4 last night on fgs, but i was still impressed as hell with his time on the floor vs the Celtics. he played air tight man defense, always knew where he was and where his man was, etc. i wouldn't be surprised at all if his performance last night earned him more minutes with McMillan being so vocal this week about possible lineup changes to get more D on the floor.
Biddy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:01 AM   #6
stephanieg
College superstar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,303
stephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

As I clicked this thread I thought you were going to say how individual defense is overrated and that the team defensive schemes combined with even average individual defense but solid team communication and a winning atmosphere would be much more effective than simply having a collection of good defenders. And that, you know, someone who plays for a substandard team will not put in even token effort but if he's moved to a better team he'll suddenly be completely different.

I was disappointed.

Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT WITHIN!" But there it is. I mean, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce? Perkins? Big Z? Delonte West? Mo Williams? This would be a laughable proposition in the summer of 2007.

Of course, this could easily segue into an analogous point re: individual offense.

Last edited by stephanieg : 01-01-2009 at 04:05 AM.
stephanieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:03 AM   #7
beasted86
Waiting on 2010....
 
beasted86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: So-Fla PSN:Ghostfaced
Posts: 7,488
beasted86 is a pretty well-respected posterbeasted86 is a pretty well-respected posterbeasted86 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Because NBA basketball is an individual sport..... Gosh! So simple.
beasted86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:04 AM   #8
Biddy77
Keyless' gimmick acct
 
Biddy77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,714
Biddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputationBiddy77 has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieg
As I clicked this thread I thought you were going to say how individual defense is overrated and that the team defensive schemes combined with even average individual defense but solid team communication and a winning atmosphere would be much more effective than simply having a collection of good defenders. And that, you know, someone who plays for a substandard team will not put in even token effort but if he's moved to a better team he'll suddenly be completely different.

I was disappointed.

Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT!" But there it is. I mean, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce? Perkins? Big Z? Delonte West? Mo Williams? This would be a laughable proposition in the summer of 2007.

so... Paul Pierce isn't a very good individual defensive player? Kobe would never vocalize it, but in his head, i'm sure he'd disagree. yes, the Celtics team defense was great against Kobe, but watch that series again and see how tightly Pierce stuck with him and contested everything. that was one of the best defensive showings i've seen in years.
Biddy77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:06 AM   #9
gpfanz
National High School Star
 
gpfanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,285
gpfanz has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleTech
know what i mean?

Knowing how to play gd D is a big asset thats why
gpfanz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:06 AM   #10
beasted86
Waiting on 2010....
 
beasted86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: So-Fla PSN:Ghostfaced
Posts: 7,488
beasted86 is a pretty well-respected posterbeasted86 is a pretty well-respected posterbeasted86 is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieg
Suffice to say, looking up and down the roster of the Celtics or Cavs doesn't scream "WARNING! LEAGUE DOMINATING DEFENSIVE JUGGERNAUT WITHIN!"

Kevin Garnett? Ben Wallace?
beasted86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:11 AM   #11
stephanieg
College superstar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,303
stephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biddy77
so... Paul Pierce isn't a very good individual defensive player?

Not before 2008, hell no. Suddenly he turns into Sidney Moncrief and is locking up LeBron and Kobe like it's nothing. Heck, even Ray Allen was making Kobe look kinda dumb out there. This goes back to my point about trying to judge the capabilities of players on bad teams. Put them on a different team and all the sudden...
stephanieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:16 AM   #12
stephanieg
College superstar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 4,303
stephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected posterstephanieg is a pretty well-respected poster
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by beasted86
Kevin Garnett? Ben Wallace?

The idea that a single player can make a team so good on D that the rest of the league looks stupid doesn't sit well with me. There have been many teams with historically all time great defensive big men who were average or above average defensively.

Cleveland was a good but not dominant defensive team last year with Wallace. Neither were the Timberwolves with KG. When Big Ben was on the Pistons he had elite individual defenders at pretty much every other position except the two.
stephanieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:19 AM   #13
FinishHim!
I dunk on kids
 
FinishHim!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,932
FinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this boardFinishHim! is popular on this board
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephanieg
The idea that a single player can make a team so good on D that the rest of the league looks stupid doesn't sit well with me. There have been many teams with historically all time great defensive big men who were average or above average defensively.

Cleveland was a good but not dominant defensive team last year with Wallace. Neither were the Timberwolves with KG. When Big Ben was on the Pistons he had elite individual defenders at pretty much every other position except the two.
And that's not even to say that Rip is a bad defender either. He's above average IMO despite not being elite. Ben Wallets was an excellent help defender i'll give him credit for that, but his one on one D wasn't all that great.
FinishHim! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 04:33 AM   #14
west
NBA rookie of the year
 
west's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,445
west has a near all-star reputation herewest has a near all-star reputation herewest has a near all-star reputation herewest has a near all-star reputation herewest has a near all-star reputation herewest has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

nevermind

Last edited by west : 01-01-2009 at 04:43 AM.
west is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2009, 07:30 AM   #15
Yung D-Will
Utah Jazz (6-6)
 
Yung D-Will's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Jerry Sloan's Doghouse
Posts: 12,581
Yung D-Will has an incredible reputation hereYung D-Will has an incredible reputation hereYung D-Will has an incredible reputation hereYung D-Will has an incredible reputation hereYung D-Will has an incredible reputation hereYung D-Will has an incredible reputation here
Default Re: Why talk about individual defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleTech
roughly 10 players in this league are considered "very good defenders"

when so few can actually "shut down" someone, why make such a big deal about defense? shouldn't it just be a huge bonus?

example:ron artest without his defense is a ricky davis type player..... BUT HE'S GREAT ON D SO LETS MAKE HIM A NEAR-ALLSTAR!

know what i mean?

Defense wins championship's playing no defense gets you less minutes(Generally) Defense creates offense.
Yung D-Will is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:25 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy