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Old 01-06-2009, 12:45 AM   #16
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Well he's not supposed to just admit his mistake. That would be silly. I would hope that he is just waiting until the absolute best possible deal comes along but I'm getting the feeling that it's not the case. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Colangelo is doing anything to cater to Bargnani being in the starting lineup whether it locks the Raptors into mediocrity or not.

Obviously it's just speculation on my part but it doesn't sound too crazy to me based on what we've seen happen with this team.

100% agree... you can see the love between them.

that's why i have given up on hope that Bargs will be traded, but hoping that he can pull something with kapono or AP
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:57 AM   #17
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by antonaki1
Now he's scoring allmost 20 a game too. Why we would trade him at all is beyond my comprehension. Last year i woulda run him out of town myself, but now i think it would be a HUGE mistake.

He is a streaky player. I just don't understand why he can't put up the numbers he has the past three games consistently throughout a full season. I think he clearly fits well in the starting C role, and O'Neal should start coming off the bench with Voskuhl to give the reserves a solid defensive presence and a scoring threat as well. Bargs' blocking and defense I think has been drastically improved and he has looked good at C, but until he puts up those numbers consistently, I am up for trading him as long as we get something valuable in return. I would be upset if we traded him just for the sake of trading him out of urgency. Then Bargs becomes the all-star player we all thought he would and BC will have made another big mistake. Let's see if we can get anything for Kapono, AP and a protected 1st or something. If not, then maybe explore our trade options with Bargs. We can get Maggette for a Kapono-Parker package, am I the only person who thinks he would really fit in well with this team?
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by Toni
He is a streaky player. I just don't understand why he can't put up the numbers he has the past three games consistently throughout a full season. I think he clearly fits well in the starting C role, and O'Neal should start coming off the bench with Voskuhl to give the reserves a solid defensive presence and a scoring threat as well. Bargs' blocking and defense I think has been drastically improved and he has looked good at C, but until he puts up those numbers consistently, I am up for trading him as long as we get something valuable in return. I would be upset if we traded him just for the sake of trading him out of urgency. Then Bargs becomes the all-star player we all thought he would and BC will have made another big mistake. Let's see if we can get anything for Kapono, AP and a protected 1st or something. If not, then maybe explore our trade options with Bargs. We can get Maggette for a Kapono-Parker package, am I the only person who thinks he would really fit in well with this team?

How many years has Maggette missed playoffs?? i think he would certainly like to play here.. just that Warriors won't do it, not unless its for Bargs and round picks
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by antonaki1
Three games in a row that Bargs has been the best defensive player on the floor for the Raps. He's starting to look like Zdeno Charra of the Bruins controlling the defensive zone, he's everywhere! Now he's scoring allmost 20 a game too. Why we would trade him at all is beyond my comprehension. Last year i woulda run him out of town myself, but now i think it would be a HUGE mistake.
Bargnani isn't controlling a damn thing defensively. He's scoring, but his interior D and rebounding ability are weak
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:39 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Bargnani isn't controlling a damn thing defensively. He's scoring, but his interior D and rebounding ability are weak

Umm.. I think your not giving him enough credit. He had a few 5+ block games this season and his defence has DRASTICALLY improved from previous seasons. I know it's hard to be optimistic with the way things have been going lately, but let's try and extract some of the few positives on this disappointing season. I really think Bargs defence is a bright spot and will continue to improve. His help defence is definitely suspect due to his generally low ball IQ, although playing straight up one-on-one D he has been pretty proficient.
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Old 01-06-2009, 07:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
He is a streaky player. I just don't understand why he can't put up the numbers he has the past three games consistently throughout a full season. I think he clearly fits well in the starting C role, and O'Neal should start coming off the bench with Voskuhl to give the reserves a solid defensive presence and a scoring threat as well. Bargs' blocking and defense I think has been drastically improved and he has looked good at C, but until he puts up those numbers consistently, I am up for trading him as long as we get something valuable in return. I would be upset if we traded him just for the sake of trading him out of urgency. Then Bargs becomes the all-star player we all thought he would and BC will have made another big mistake. Let's see if we can get anything for Kapono, AP and a protected 1st or something. If not, then maybe explore our trade options with Bargs. We can get Maggette for a Kapono-Parker package, am I the only person who thinks he would really fit in well with this team?
Agree with most of your points. Also having Jermaine come off the bench as crazy as that sounds. Lets face it, trading Bargs and expecting Jermaine to play consistently without injuries this late in his career is a huge huge risk. Every time he goes down we'd be in a huge mess and it appears that would be often.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:27 AM   #22
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

There is really no way that JO could ever come off the bench. He'll pull a TJ on the Raps.

More than likely Bargs will be 6th man again.

Rumors out there that BC has been trying to move JO.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

"Have no doubt about it, the GM is asking for takers for O誰eal, he might ask more teams more seriously now that Bargnani is playing as he is and O誰eal was playing as he was. "

"http://www.news-herald.com/articles/...s/nh304836.txt

"Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo is ready to shake things up in Toronto. He's tried to move forward/center Jermaine O'Neal to at least half a dozen teams. "
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

Quote:
Originally Posted by power works
There is really no way that JO could ever come off the bench. He'll pull a TJ on the Raps.

More than likely Bargs will be 6th man again.

Rumors out there that BC has been trying to move JO.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

"Have no doubt about it, the GM is asking for takers for O誰eal, he might ask more teams more seriously now that Bargnani is playing as he is and O誰eal was playing as he was. "

"http://www.news-herald.com/articles/...s/nh304836.txt

"Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo is ready to shake things up in Toronto. He's tried to move forward/center Jermaine O'Neal to at least half a dozen teams. "


I don't think you'll see Bargnani traded... and not because Colangelo is in love with him, but because the value you'd get back out of him at this point isn't high enough. If the right deal presented itself, I don't think BC would have qualms with trading him... it'd be a shot to the ego, but I truly feel he'd do the right thing.

With regards to the JO talk, same applies. If the Raps could move him for a quality wing, I think Bargs being the team's starting centre becomes less of a liability, as they could survive through his struggles when they come (and they will come). JO will start when he's ready.

I think we'd all agree that Bargnani has played his best games this year when he's had a defined, sustained role on this team, whether that role is the 6th man off the bench for JO or Bosh, or as the starting C.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:55 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
Umm.. I think your not giving him enough credit. He had a few 5+ block games this season and his defence has DRASTICALLY improved from previous seasons. I know it's hard to be optimistic with the way things have been going lately, but let's try and extract some of the few positives on this disappointing season. I really think Bargs defence is a bright spot and will continue to improve. His help defence is definitely suspect due to his generally low ball IQ, although playing straight up one-on-one D he has been pretty proficient.
um... did you happen to catch the game last night? people were having layup drills. Bargnani's D has been decent a few times against big, back to the basket players but he still has the tendecy to pick up quick fouls and despite the numbers, is not a great shot blocker. Dirk Nowitzki has been getting about 9 boards and a block for several seasons and you don't hear anyone calling him an All-NBA defender and rebounder. He's 7 damn feet tall... Even if Bargnani became a 20/10 player (which he won't) we still wouldn't need him. We need a guard, that's it, plain and simple... and until we get that player, we aren't going anywhere.
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:59 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

Quote:
Originally Posted by power works
There is really no way that JO could ever come off the bench. He'll pull a TJ on the Raps.

More than likely Bargs will be 6th man again.

Rumors out there that BC has been trying to move JO.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/

"Have no doubt about it, the GM is asking for takers for O誰eal, he might ask more teams more seriously now that Bargnani is playing as he is and O誰eal was playing as he was. "

"http://www.news-herald.com/articles/...s/nh304836.txt


"Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo is ready to shake things up in Toronto. He's tried to move forward/center Jermaine O'Neal to at least half a dozen teams. "
Does anyone else find it funny that BC preaches about a patient approach when it comes to his prized possesion, but yet he's already shopping JO (who he JUST picked up) 3 months into the season? Clearly he's lost sight of how to construct a successful on-court product.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:03 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Does anyone else find it funny that BC preaches about a patient approach when it comes to his prized possesion, but yet he's already shopping JO (who he JUST picked up) 3 months into the season? Clearly he's lost sight of how to construct a successful on-court product.

How can you compare patience when it comes to Bargnani and O'Neal?

The reason why he traded for JO was not strictly to win now. It was a trade to help keep his options open. It was to get rid of Ford's salary earlier so he had cap space for 2010. It was to get rid of the dilemma of having 2 starting PGs which caused some tension. Help improve team interior defense now. Maybe also act as a mentor to Bargnani and add toughness to the team now and hope that some of that toughness rub off on Bosh, Bargnani and some other guys on the team. At his age anyone seriously think JO was brought here to make them a NBA championship contender. At best he was brought here to help them contend to make the 2nd round.

O'Neal is near the end of his career. Bargnani is near the beginning of his career. To imply Colangelo is a hypocrite in terms of patience makes no sense. And talking about patience it took O'Neal a few years to go from a nothing player to a key contributor. Bargnani is in his third year.

I don't think he has lost sight of how to construct a successful team. I think most people in here have no sight or vision what it takes to be a GM of a sports franchise and work towards developing a successful team. Not so simple armchair GMs.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:45 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

http://dinonationblog.wordpress.com/...-the-airwaves/
Quote:
He also was asked about where he felt the team he had put together stacked up in the Eastern Conference. Were they the second best team in the Eastern Confernce? Colangelo brought up about 5 other teams and suggested their merits and would say that he did feel that the goal was to be in the top 4 and get home court advantage but the Raptors were among a number of teams that could be second best in the conference.

Quote:
“On paper, in terms of just pure talent, I would say, yes, this is the best team we’ve had,” the Raptor president and general manager said Monday afternoon.

JO was not just brought in for cap relief. BC fully expected this team to be a top contender in the EC, there's no doubt about that if you listened to him talk all summer.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:47 AM   #28
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

Colangelo traded 3 of his best assets to get JO. Ford, Rasho's expiring deal and the 1st rounder. That to me signifies "win now".

And now after a couple months of good play from O'Neal it's time to pull the plug on this? I highly doubt the Raptors will get anything of significant value for O'Neal so this trade ends up being just a big waste. If the argument is to get someone like Marion for cap room then why? Who from this upcoming unspectacular free agent class are the Raptors going to sign? I can't wait till the money saved once JO is traded is used once again on stop-gap veterans like Parker and Garbajosa. I can't believe it only took 4 solid games from his golden boy to get this going.

IMO, Colangelo is about to create a mess of this roster.
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Old 01-06-2009, 11:57 AM   #29
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

I'm in full support of finding a taker for JO.

His massive contract is holding us back big-time.
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Old 01-06-2009, 12:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bargnani not on block!

I would move JO for Marbury or Marion instantly. We aren't doing anything this year and since we have no chance to sign a big time free agent in 2010 (except for Bosh) then we use the money in the 2009 offseason to get a wing, improve our product, which will make Bosh want to stay. Of course that means getting a 'good' wing, and not stop gags european vets like we have been doing.

I mean in theory, with all JO's money coming off the books....I can't recall how far under the cap we would be, but you could sign guys like Rip Hamilton, Hedo, Ben Gordon, Artest, Marion etc to drastically improve our wings.....add a lottery pick to our 'core' and we'd be much improved in 2009. Bosh re-signs in 2010.

Last edited by RapsFan : 01-06-2009 at 12:07 PM.
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