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Old 01-08-2009, 11:03 AM   #1
jrcp3
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Default No Josh Howard for Raptors.

I don't begrudge anybody throwing out a trade rumor that makes sense. But the one floated about Josh Howard going to Toronto for Andrea Bargnani and Anthony Parker has zero chance of happening. A couple of good NBA insiders have suggested time would be better spent taking a nap today than chasing that bit of speculation. Dallas Morning News Blog

That's to bad, he would of been a great fit!
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:25 AM   #2
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

yeah I think Howard would do well here but I don't think its worth giving up Bargs for. Think about it for a minute. We want players on this team that will stick with us and not bolt out the door once their contract is up. Bargs has made it public he loves T.O and I can see him spending his entire career here as long as he's not traded. Lets build around players that WANT to be here.
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
yeah I think Howard would do well here but I don't think its worth giving up Bargs for. Think about it for a minute. We want players on this team that will stick with us and not bolt out the door once their contract is up. Bargs has made it public he loves T.O and I can see him spending his entire career here as long as he's not traded. Lets build around players that WANT to be here.


LOL i couldn't picture Bargnani anywhere else than in Toronto ......
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Old 01-08-2009, 11:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

I would like to see more Raps fans get behind this kid and help his confidence even more. He has shown what he can do when he is confident. I am yet to see anyone shut him down except for himself. Bargs will go into another slump like ALL NBA players its inevitable. Lets just make sure we as fans get behind the kid this time and stfu about trading him. No wonder no one wants to play in T.O eh.
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Old 01-08-2009, 12:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

I am shocked that the trade did not go through. The article was written by such a credible source with such knowledge and integrity.

lol
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
LOL i couldn't picture Bargnani anywhere else than in Toronto ......
If he had been drafted #1 ANYWHERE other than Toronto, the media and fans would have completely crushed him by now. We Canadians are somewhat nicer, not to say that we haven't criticized him, but we also haven't assassinated him. It isn't Andrea's fault he was drafted #1, so long as he becomes a good Okur-esque player (and he has been in the last few weeks), I have nothing personal against Bargnani. But I do resent BC for not picking Roy or Gay, since this team hasn't had a star on the wings since Vince. Of course, we can't blame BC for us not having drafted Iggy, Josh Smith, K-Mart, or Granger, or if we wanted another big, Al Jefferson, Biedrins or Bynum. And I definitely want BC to move Bargs if a good deal comes along, since he will never be the kind of center you want next to Bosh.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G.
And I definitely want BC to move Bargs if a good deal comes along, since he will never be the kind of center you want next to Bosh.

I don't understand that last statement. Why is Bargnani not a good fit with Bosh. Do you want some one like Dalembert beside him? Somebody who will clog the offensive paint and force Bosh to take jump shots?

Just who would you like to have beside Bosh as a centre that would not take away from Chris's game? Bosh looks better when he's playing with Bargnani then when he's with JO. JO takes shots away from Chris, Bargs makes his own shots without dominating the ball and taking Bosh's game away from him.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
I would like to see more Raps fans get behind this kid and help his confidence even more. He has shown what he can do when he is confident. I am yet to see anyone shut him down except for himself. Bargs will go into another slump like ALL NBA players its inevitable. Lets just make sure we as fans get behind the kid this time and stfu about trading him. No wonder no one wants to play in T.O eh.

Agree.

He's probably had the best 5 game stretch of his career. Sure he will go into a slump again but maybe the slumps will become shorter and the good streaks longer. You would expect with more experience that would happen.

People forget that GMs were polled before the 2006-2007 season (like every season).

Who would be the best player from the 2006 draft after 5 years?

http://www.insidehoops.com/general-m...y-102506.shtml

Scroll down to the bottom half to see questions and answers.

Bargnani was the top guy mentioned along with Tyrus Thomas. Roy had half the votes that Bargnani had.

Who would win rookie of the year? Brandon Roy was by far the top answer with Bargnani getting little of the vote.

Who would be a sleeper success? Wow they picked Rondo and he has been.


Then I laugh when some armchair GMs say so & so is a better manager than Colangelo yet it would be interesting which GMs voted for Bargnani. I am sure some of the GMs who armchair GMs think are better than Colangelo and GMs who have recently won titles and whose teams are consistently competitive picked Bargnani.

And then the armchair GMs say he is such a bust yet only 2 and half seasons have passed and according to real sources there are quite a few GMs interested in Bargnani. So perhaps Colangelo is not that stupid or there are alot of stupid GMs.

And then I laugh when these armchair GMs say 'well they should have traded the pick down because no one in the top 5 other than Colangelo wanted Bargnani.' Really. One, how the hell do you know? (Perhaps other GMs did not mention Bargnani because it was futile since they knew he was going to go #1 so why talk about him.) And two, there was no concensus number #1 pick. How much more value are you going to get by trading down in a draft where there is no #1 concensus pick. Maybe in the year LeBron was drafted, sure.

There is no guarantee Bargnani will be the best or say top 3 player in his rookie class however there seems to be some knowledgable executives supporting the fact he still could and very well be.

Last edited by huppcap : 01-08-2009 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
I don't understand that last statement. Why is Bargnani not a good fit with Bosh. Do you want some one like Dalembert beside him? Somebody who will clog the offensive paint and force Bosh to take jump shots?

Just who would you like to have beside Bosh as a centre that would not take away from Chris's game? Bosh looks better when he's playing with Bargnani then when he's with JO. JO takes shots away from Chris, Bargs makes his own shots without dominating the ball and taking Bosh's game away from him.

Well, it's because Bosh isn't a post offensive player at all. He's a face up offensive player. Also, there are two sides to the game so having a defensive player along side Bosh would be a better fit. I think that is what some fans would prefer.

Last edited by RapsFan : 01-08-2009 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 01-08-2009, 01:32 PM   #10
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
I would like to see more Raps fans get behind this kid and help his confidence even more. He has shown what he can do when he is confident. I am yet to see anyone shut him down except for himself. Bargs will go into another slump like ALL NBA players its inevitable. Lets just make sure we as fans get behind the kid this time and stfu about trading him. No wonder no one wants to play in T.O eh.

One thing bargs doesn't get enough credit for is his work ethic and attitude. I have never heard one story about him complaining about his position change, role in the offense, or anything really. He's struggled at times, but never pulled a Darko and just stopped trying. Even after his great last game he gave all the credit to Bosh getting him open looks off double teams...that sort of attitude will ensure Bosh keeps looking for him.

That is the kind of player that improves. He has the will to get better, and the natural talent to excel...it's just a matter of being given a consistant oppourtunity.
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:12 PM   #11
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Actually having Bosh beside Sammy D would be a nice fit, or regardless any other big 7ft defense minded center ...... Chris would get the touches more often and we would get Offense rebounds and put backs ALOT more ..... 2nd Chance points are what makes the best teams, there easy buckets ...... anyways i really don't know about O'Neil and Bosh because both are looking for there own shot ..... i am interested in seeing O'Neil coming off the bench for bosh ..... That seems to be interesting O'Neil can score and does the same as Bosh while Bosh can take a rest without worrying about the team scoring ..... I'm still pissed we had to trade 3 players for O'Neil ..... RASHO was a nice Center or even Hilbert as a rookie ...... FORD ALONE is worth O'Neil at this point and we had to give up 3 players for O'Neil kind of sucks if you think about it ......
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Old 01-08-2009, 02:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

So if Bargs keeps putting up the #'s he currently is for a few more weeks, will we still be in such a rush to move him. Maybe he's turned the corner to meeting his potential?


It kinda looks that way......kinda
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:20 PM   #13
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
I don't understand that last statement. Why is Bargnani not a good fit with Bosh. Do you want some one like Dalembert beside him? Somebody who will clog the offensive paint and force Bosh to take jump shots?

Just who would you like to have beside Bosh as a centre that would not take away from Chris's game? Bosh looks better when he's playing with Bargnani then when he's with JO. JO takes shots away from Chris, Bargs makes his own shots without dominating the ball and taking Bosh's game away from him.

Agree.

(Okay this took me a bit of time.)

I looked at the game logs and games where each O'Neal and Bargnani scored 3 pts or more above their season average. So for O'Neal that would be games where he scored 17+ and for Bargnani where he scored 15+.

In those games the Raptors are 3-8 when O'Neal scores 17+ points per game and 6-5 when Bargnani scores 15+ points per game. There is only one game where O'Neal scores 17+ and Bargnani 15+ in the same game. And that was the Nov. 12th loss to the 76ers at home. O'Neal had 19 and Bargnani 15. Bosh had 30.

In the games O'Neal had 17+ points per game Bosh took 15 FGA per game, FG% was 47%, 8.5 RPG and 2 APG and 21.6 PPG.

In the games Bargnani had 15+ points per game Bosh took 18 FGA per game, FG% was 49%, 10.7 RPG and 2.8 APG and 25.9 PPG.

Bosh took one more FTA per game in those Bargnani games.

O'Neal averaged 8 RPG, 2.4 BPG and 1.7 TOPG in those 11 games when he scored 17+. Bargnani averaged 5.7 RPG, 1.9 BPG and 2.0 TOPG in those 11 games when he scored 15+.

In O'Neal's case the wins came against 76ers, Clippers and Kings; all below .500% teams. In Bargnani's case 3 of the wins came against Heat, Rockets and Magic; all .500% or better. 2 of those wins in games O'Neal did not play.

O'Neal obviously draws more charges, plays with more of an edge and is more of an intimidator than Bargnani which of course does not show up in the stats. O'Neal also plays with more outwardly emotion. Take that stuff for what it is worth. It is important too.

But very interesting stats. They say something. I think the most important stat is the record.
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:22 PM   #14
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valliant13
One thing bargs doesn't get enough credit for is his work ethic and attitude. I have never heard one story about him complaining about his position change, role in the offense, or anything really. He's struggled at times, but never pulled a Darko and just stopped trying. Even after his great last game he gave all the credit to Bosh getting him open looks off double teams...that sort of attitude will ensure Bosh keeps looking for him.

That is the kind of player that improves. He has the will to get better, and the natural talent to excel...it's just a matter of being given a consistant oppourtunity.

Great point!
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Old 01-08-2009, 03:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: No Josh Howard for Raptors.

Quote:
I think the most important stat is the record.
Agreed. So I will wait to see how it plays out. The only major piece that's going anywhere (if anyone) is JO, so all this discussion about Bargnani isn't much point.
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