Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-11-2009, 03:13 PM   #31
Qwyjibo
Yankee.Hotel.Foxtrot
 
Qwyjibo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,476
Qwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterQwyjibo is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

At this point, I say just keep losing. Despite the weak draft, I'd rather have the best pick possible so 13th place is better than 9th or 10th.

Obviously they shouldn't lose on purpose but there's no point in complaining after a loss since it can only help this team for the long-run. And really, the Raptors are doing nothing this year nor probably next year.
Qwyjibo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 03:18 PM   #32
jrcp3
GuardsWinChampionships
 
jrcp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: City of God
Posts: 1,192
jrcp3 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
It's ok guys, we're doing a good job of holding down the fort until we get Caron Butler and Corey Maggette.

HAHA ..... in our dreams!
jrcp3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 03:20 PM   #33
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,275
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
HAHA ..... in our dreams!
haven't you seen the people who are saying we have a legit shot for any combo of Parker/Kapono/JO/draft picks?
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 03:36 PM   #34
b4ball
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,146
b4ball has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
we would be the best team in the East with that trade BTW

You're an idiot and if we had a moderator with half a brain you would have already been banned.
b4ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 04:09 PM   #35
Dr.Funk
Decent college freshman
 
Dr.Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,928
Dr.Funk has decent reputationDr.Funk has decent reputation
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
You're an idiot and if we had a moderator with half a brain you would have already been banned.


Mods don't have the power to ban posters.

Only administrators have that power.
Dr.Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 04:50 PM   #36
Chamberlain
Riggin' for Wiggins!
 
Chamberlain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cape Breton Island
Posts: 4,244
Chamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputationChamberlain has a terrific reputation
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

What's with the hate b4ball.
Chamberlain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 04:58 PM   #37
jwen_99
Can barely lace up my sneakers
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 9
jwen_99 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
Pretty good game ..... i think having Jose coming back and playing only 22 minutes ruined the Chem, than leaving around half time, we made a huge run without him ......

Regardless since were playing well right now Jose should just sit out until he's 100% because having him not at 100% is only going to hurt us on the defensive end ......
He's nothing close to last season. We all know that's his contract year last year. Score or assist is one thing. But defence all you need is effort. This guy has no intension to defence his guy.
jwen_99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 05:20 PM   #38
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,500
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwen_99
He's nothing close to last season. We all know that's his contract year last year. Score or assist is one thing. But defence all you need is effort. This guy has no intension to defence his guy.

I disagree with that statement. He's obviously trying but he's physically limited in that;

1) He is not a great athlete.
2) He's still labouring from his hamstring injury. (Maybe)

Jose always gives his best effort, but his lack of athleticism hurts him on the defensive end. Rondo exploited him numerous times today and it was hard to watch. Even with his defensive inconsistencies he is still our best PG. I can't wait for the development of Roko Ukic, his defense is stellar and he is a better athlete than Calderon. Once his shot and NBA sense comes around he will be a better player than Jose in a few years. Solomon has been serviceable at times but he is definitely a journeyman NBA player. I don't understand why he plays so much when Roko is our future. We played so much better while he was running the point today as well, +11 in point differential. The best on the Raptors squad. That stat speaks volumes IMO.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 05:26 PM   #39
b4ball
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,146
b4ball has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

I apologies to the Mods, too much beer and a loss = a little less patience. No excuses, please accept my apologies.

Not to much beer, just more then I should have while online.
b4ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #40
gecko044
I airball my layups
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 45
gecko044 has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

things tht stood out in this game

1) Bargnani is understanding to analyze the defense and not just do wht he has made up his mind to do. Evidence: he was abt to take a 3 when he noticed Bosh running down the baseline, threw it down for a CB4 dunk.

2) the Killer Bs developing chemistry. Evidence: look at #1 (there were other moments, just cant remember).

3) Jose's defense getting exposed for the 3rd time this season against Rondo. No excuses! He was near 100% if not 100%. Evidence: Leo Rautins said Calderon took longer to return to court this time compared to his return last time to allow for complete recovery and avoid risk for reinjuring his hamstring.

4) JOEY GRAHAM!!! from his put back of a Bargnani missed hookshot to his steal off Eddie House to his block on a celtics big (Garnett?? cant recall) to his fight with SCALABRINEEE!!! put all those Scalabrine to Raptors rumours to rest! not happening!! Evidence: is there any needed?

5) 3rd quarter breakdown of the team concept. EVERYONE was looking for the quickest shot. there was no team concept. no one waited for Bosh or Bargnani or any other teammate to be in the paint for rebound hell they didnt even wait for anyone to be inside the 3pt arc. shots were fired extremely early in the shot clock. continued until Bosh got frustrated and started taking similar shots including one from long range to send a msg to his TEAM!! Evidence: despite closing the 1st half strong, we shot what? 27% in the 3rd??

6) ROKO UKIC!! he showed he is more than capable of running this team. his strong play was one of the best things to come out of this loss. He gained the coaches' confidence. Evidence: Roko was allowed to close out the game. he played the whole 4th quarter in which the raps outscored the celts by 14 pts. his stats show 4 pts on 2/3 shooting including a missed 3pt, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, and a block (thats a 1.5 assists to turnover ratio which resulted in a +11 point differential, rendering the assists to turnover stat overrated and meaningless....sorry Jose lovers). Doc Rivers was frustrated with his team during the run.

7) the game was ours for the taking if it wasn't for Ray Allen's hot hand. Evidence: Ray Allen: 11/14 fgs = 79% , rest of team: 21/64 fgs = 33% ; Ray Allen: 8/10 3pt = 80% , rest of team: 2/10 3pt = 20%
gecko044 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 08:00 PM   #41
Dr.Funk
Decent college freshman
 
Dr.Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,928
Dr.Funk has decent reputationDr.Funk has decent reputation
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

With Jose out for tomorrows rematch, Triano hopefully will see what Ukic can do given the start.
Dr.Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 10:54 PM   #42
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,500
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko044
things tht stood out in this game

1) Bargnani is understanding to analyze the defense and not just do wht he has made up his mind to do. Evidence: he was abt to take a 3 when he noticed Bosh running down the baseline, threw it down for a CB4 dunk.

2) the Killer Bs developing chemistry. Evidence: look at #1 (there were other moments, just cant remember).

3) Jose's defense getting exposed for the 3rd time this season against Rondo. No excuses! He was near 100% if not 100%. Evidence: Leo Rautins said Calderon took longer to return to court this time compared to his return last time to allow for complete recovery and avoid risk for reinjuring his hamstring.

4) JOEY GRAHAM!!! from his put back of a Bargnani missed hookshot to his steal off Eddie House to his block on a celtics big (Garnett?? cant recall) to his fight with SCALABRINEEE!!! put all those Scalabrine to Raptors rumours to rest! not happening!! Evidence: is there any needed?

5) 3rd quarter breakdown of the team concept. EVERYONE was looking for the quickest shot. there was no team concept. no one waited for Bosh or Bargnani or any other teammate to be in the paint for rebound hell they didnt even wait for anyone to be inside the 3pt arc. shots were fired extremely early in the shot clock. continued until Bosh got frustrated and started taking similar shots including one from long range to send a msg to his TEAM!! Evidence: despite closing the 1st half strong, we shot what? 27% in the 3rd??

6) ROKO UKIC!! he showed he is more than capable of running this team. his strong play was one of the best things to come out of this loss. He gained the coaches' confidence. Evidence: Roko was allowed to close out the game. he played the whole 4th quarter in which the raps outscored the celts by 14 pts. his stats show 4 pts on 2/3 shooting including a missed 3pt, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, and a block (thats a 1.5 assists to turnover ratio which resulted in a +11 point differential, rendering the assists to turnover stat overrated and meaningless....sorry Jose lovers). Doc Rivers was frustrated with his team during the run.

7) the game was ours for the taking if it wasn't for Ray Allen's hot hand. Evidence: Ray Allen: 11/14 fgs = 79% , rest of team: 21/64 fgs = 33% ; Ray Allen: 8/10 3pt = 80% , rest of team: 2/10 3pt = 20%

Good post and summary. I enjoyed reading that. All of your points are very true and valid. Is Roko starting for sure next game? Did I read that correctly?
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 10:56 AM   #43
huppcap
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,086
huppcap has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTrade
I think this game had more to do with the biggest draft bust in NBA history. He is known as Andrea Bustnani. He shot 27% from the field absolutely brutal, he is the biggest chucker in the NBA. Get rid of this goofy looking Euro plz

First according to the stats he shot 36% (5-14). If he shot 27% then he would have been 5-18. Anyhow, regardless he did not have a great shooting game albeit better than Bosh.

They did not lose because of Bargnani. He had 9 rebounds which can't be a complaint.

It was a team loss. All the players contributed to it. But the biggest difference was Ray Allen. They gave him too many open looks. Don't know who you could point the finger at; defensive philosophy ie. coach or individual players.

Obviously you hate the guy so no matter what he does you won't be satisfied.

Last edited by huppcap : 01-12-2009 at 10:59 AM.
huppcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 11:38 AM   #44
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,275
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by huppcap
First according to the stats he shot 36% (5-14). If he shot 27% then he would have been 5-18. Anyhow, regardless he did not have a great shooting game albeit better than Bosh.

They did not lose because of Bargnani. He had 9 rebounds which can't be a complaint.

It was a team loss. All the players contributed to it. But the biggest difference was Ray Allen. They gave him too many open looks. Don't know who you could point the finger at; defensive philosophy ie. coach or individual players.

Obviously you hate the guy so no matter what he does you won't be satisfied.
I've said this before and i'll say it again. The coach can tell you how to play lockdown D, design a good defensive system and drill the point accross in practice but you have to have the right type of players to implement it. Joey Graham isn't gonna become Caron Butler, Jason Kapono isn't gonna become Rip Hamilton, and so on down the line. We're screwed until at least 2010 in that regard, barring a miracle trade.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 11:59 AM   #45
huppcap
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,086
huppcap has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: Raptors Back - Back with Celtics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko044
things tht stood out in this game

1) Bargnani is understanding to analyze the defense and not just do wht he has made up his mind to do. Evidence: he was abt to take a 3 when he noticed Bosh running down the baseline, threw it down for a CB4 dunk.

2) the Killer Bs developing chemistry. Evidence: look at #1 (there were other moments, just cant remember).

3) Jose's defense getting exposed for the 3rd time this season against Rondo. No excuses! He was near 100% if not 100%. Evidence: Leo Rautins said Calderon took longer to return to court this time compared to his return last time to allow for complete recovery and avoid risk for reinjuring his hamstring.

4) JOEY GRAHAM!!! from his put back of a Bargnani missed hookshot to his steal off Eddie House to his block on a celtics big (Garnett?? cant recall) to his fight with SCALABRINEEE!!! put all those Scalabrine to Raptors rumours to rest! not happening!! Evidence: is there any needed?

5) 3rd quarter breakdown of the team concept. EVERYONE was looking for the quickest shot. there was no team concept. no one waited for Bosh or Bargnani or any other teammate to be in the paint for rebound hell they didnt even wait for anyone to be inside the 3pt arc. shots were fired extremely early in the shot clock. continued until Bosh got frustrated and started taking similar shots including one from long range to send a msg to his TEAM!! Evidence: despite closing the 1st half strong, we shot what? 27% in the 3rd??

6) ROKO UKIC!! he showed he is more than capable of running this team. his strong play was one of the best things to come out of this loss. He gained the coaches' confidence. Evidence: Roko was allowed to close out the game. he played the whole 4th quarter in which the raps outscored the celts by 14 pts. his stats show 4 pts on 2/3 shooting including a missed 3pt, 3 assists, 2 turnovers, and a block (thats a 1.5 assists to turnover ratio which resulted in a +11 point differential, rendering the assists to turnover stat overrated and meaningless....sorry Jose lovers). Doc Rivers was frustrated with his team during the run.

7) the game was ours for the taking if it wasn't for Ray Allen's hot hand. Evidence: Ray Allen: 11/14 fgs = 79% , rest of team: 21/64 fgs = 33% ; Ray Allen: 8/10 3pt = 80% , rest of team: 2/10 3pt = 20%

Most of what you wrote makes sense albeit Jose is not 100% or close to it IMO. Hamstring injuries are very difficult injuries to heal quickly. This has been an issue since the Olympics. They can linger for months. Yes Jose is not the quickest when he is 100% healthy but there is no way he is 100% healthy now. (Sitting out tonight's game and Triano even said in the post game they wanted to give him a bit of time to see how he felt in game playing situations.) A hamstring could feel 100% fine and then all of a sudden get re-injured. Plus mentally was Jose playing with the possibility of hurting the hamstring again on his mind which made him play more safely or cautiously?

As far as Graham it was the most edge I have seen him play with ever. That is what I have been looking for from him. I liked how he knocked (hard foul) a Celtic down looked at him on the floor and walked away without helping him up. I liked his scrum with Scalabrine. He stood up to the Celtics. Bosh on the other hand did not again. He helps Rondo up on one play. In addition even embarrassing Rondo dunks on Bosh. It is not like Bosh just turns around and Rondo is already in the air going for the dunk. Rondo turns the corner baseline and Bosh sees him the whole time. Instead of at least jumping up straight with both his arms in the air to prevent Rondo from getting an easy basket he does nothing. There is a chance if he did Rondo would have bumped into him and missed with no foul call or at least get caleld for the foul with little chance of Rondo scoring. At least send a message by fouling him. The one thing I can't stand is the lack of edge and toughness of Bosh. He is the leader of the team and does not lead by example in this category. He could learn something from Graham, O'Neal and Voshkul.

Graham went to the foul line 9 times. All his production was inside. (8 rebounds) Again, gotta love the way he played. Loved his energy.

Despite the way I thought Kapano seemed to play his stat line (at least shooting and turnover wise) looks alot better than I thought. He was 5-7 with 1 turnover. Of course his rebounding could have been better.

I cringed every time Moon took a jumpshot albeit he lucked out this game with 6-10. However there were several times he got the ball under the basket and like a chicken threw the ball out to avoid contact. No offensive rebounds which says something but he had 7 defensive bounds.

I also cringed when Bosh took what I thought was another ill-advised 3 pt shot. He can't be takign those shots unless it is in despiration which at that point of the game it was not. I will say though late in the game when they were making a run and he had the ball with Garnett guarding him (I was yelling out loud for him to take Garnett off the dribble) and he finally took it to him to the rim and resulted with a great dunk. That he has to do more of especially against Garnett.

The Raptors did get to the line 31 times; more than the Celtics but still took too many jumpers.

Bargnani played decently; can't complain getting 9 rebounds.

I was a bit frustrated it took Triano so long to get Ukic in. I was at the game and he had his own little Croatian fan club cheering him on. They were louder than all the other 19,000 plus at the game. (Too bad Toronto 'fans' can't get off their hands. I am not the loudest fan but I did try to clap and cheer when they were trying to get some noise and cheering going. If I am one of only 2 people in my row doing that it does nothing. Cheering and clapping are contagious. Even if half the crowd claps that makes big noise. They don't even have to have anything come out of their mouths. It's too bad the biggest cheers are only when the Raptors are playing a stretch of the game really well. Some guy in front of me was nearly sleeping. Guess he had a hangover or is not use to being in public early Sunday afternoon.)

As for Solomon he looked confused at times. There were times when the clock was running down and he should have taken a shot after going inside out in the post and other times he tried to penetrate and created nothing. Again wish Triano swapped the back-up PGs earlier in the game.

The Raptors made it close but in the end the Ray Allen 3 pointers were the difference. I can't understand why after he hit 3 in a row no one covered him like glue. There should have been no help defense or cheating by his defender. Don't know if this was a coaching decision or player mistakes but it was not acceptable he was left open so many times especially after hitting 3 straight. If I had to blame one player for the loss it would be Parker. 2-12 and one of the guys guarding Allen. But again if he was told to keep with the team philosophy of clogging the middle then not his fault totally. And Jose did get beat by Rondo several times who dished it to an open Allen. Again this would signify more likely help defense but of course their defense has had it share of brain cramps over the years. Of course Triano could have been playing the law of percentages which would have state eventually Allen would make his share of misses but of course that could be in another game or two.

(The Raptors should have a better Sunday record at home you would think.)

Even though they showed some heart in the 4th and Ukic helped them in that department in the end a loss is a loss and it will be difficult to get one in Boston tonight.
huppcap is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:39 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site















Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy