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Old 01-10-2009, 11:20 AM   #1
danumber88
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Default True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Self-explanitory, and might I add:

Are we a better defensive team, the saying goes "The Defense starts at the pg spot"?

More fastbreak pts without Calderon?

In general, are we a better team without Calderon. 4-1 without him right now and beating 2 legit contenders. Also beating the best road team in the NBA, Orlando.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:42 AM   #2
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

False,


The team is just pulling together a bit knowing we are without 2 starters, also some of the better teams are looking past us right now knowing we were struggling and without starters.

however, come playoff time, ( if we make it) Joses half court mindset will serve us well.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:51 AM   #3
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

I think we were lucky to hit both Houston and Orlando when they were clearly off their games, injuries also playing a part. The rest of the schedule we should have won games as the teams weren't exactly world beaters. Play the upper echelon teams on their court and we'd get smoked every game without Jose. Although Jose is not the best man on man defender, he's a capable team defender and we also need his scoring and his low turnover rate handling the biscuit.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Well depends .... Calderon is fully a half court point guard he ALWAYS stops the fast break and sets up, but Roko and Salomon we can't trust in the playoffs regardless ......
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:40 PM   #5
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
Well depends .... Calderon is fully a half court point guard he ALWAYS stops the fast break and sets up, but Roko and Salomon we can't trust in the playoffs regardless ......

False...

Check out the stats... the opponent PG counterpart's PER, points/48 minutes, and assists/48 minutes are lower when Calderon's ON THE FLOOR, opposed to Soloman (Ukic's are lower, but he plays primarily against the opponent's 2nd line players).

Calderon:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08TOR1.HTM
Soloman:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08TOR2.HTM
Ukic:
http://www.82games.com/0809/08TOR3.HTM

So, if you went by those, it would look like Calderon is the "better" defender than the other two guys. (This statement can be tempered by noting that all three allow their counterpart to perform at an above NBA-average pace.) This would lead me to believe that the Raptors have gotten better as a team on defense, whether it be through schemes, rebounding, etc, and this would hold true whether or not Calderon was in the line-up.

The difference is that Calderon is a much better player on the other end of the floor, (leads our top 8 most productive 5-man units, and significantly outperforms the back-ups http://www.82games.com/0809/0809TOR2.HTM... look at those #s as well, for the Calderon groups, less than half of shots taken by opponents are from close range, opposed to more than half for the similar Soloman line-up).

With regards to the fast break, the Raps were doing it more with Calderon in the line-up, and I would expect them to keep doing it with Calderon in there. His injury just happened to coincide with the new year home stand where they had a chance to practice these things, IMO.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

The Raptors are playing some bad teams right but I do think Calderon's worth to the Raptors is and always has been overrated.

I'd rather have a guy like Earl Watson starting at PG with a good wing than Calderon and an average wing. Just for example.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:00 PM   #7
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
The Raptors are playing some bad teams right but I do think Calderon's worth to the Raptors is and always has been overrated.

I'd rather have a guy like Earl Watson starting at PG with a good wing than Calderon and an average wing. Just for example.

yeaaa we could of probably had a sub-allstar wing if we would of traded Calderon or Ford last year ......

Colengelo must of kind of thought Bargnani was a kind of bust for him to go and get O'Neil to place the center, knowning that Bargnani was the C you know what i'm saying? ..... Bargnani is proving Colengelo wrong, and now everyone is looking to trade O'Neil .... WHO WE JUST GOT!!!!!!!! we should of traded Ford for a wing, but Colengelo didn't believe in Bargnani fully ....... just think about that .....
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

False.

But Solomon+Ukic showed better D and fastbreak (at the cost of lots of TOs and poor shooting FG)

I think Calderon can learn a lot from this break he had, in terms of D and fastbreak, he is a good observer and a quick learner
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:03 PM   #9
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
yeaaa we could of probably had a sub-allstar wing if we would of traded Calderon or Ford last year ......

Colengelo must of kind of thought Bargnani was a kind of bust for him to go and get O'Neil to place the center, knowning that Bargnani was the C you know what i'm saying? ..... Bargnani is proving Colengelo wrong, and now everyone is looking to trade O'Neil .... WHO WE JUST GOT!!!!!!!! we should of traded Ford for a wing, but Colengelo didn't believe in Bargnani fully ....... just think about that .....


Speaking of Ford... he was a DNP-Coach's Decision last night...
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
Speaking of Ford... he was a DNP-Coach's Decision last night...
I think he's still injured.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Just think why would Colangelo bring in a BIG ( O'Neil ) when we already had our big of the " Future " ( Bargnani ) .......

Because before this week Colangelo never really believed in Bargnani or else he wouldn't of spent our MAIN trading chip on a another big like O'Neil ......

If Colangelo fully believed in Bargnani from day 1 he would of traded Ford for a wing player instead, and were were some offers at the time back then .......

But now it's a pain in the a$$ because Bargnani is playing great and showing us why he was the big of the future for us, and O'Neil most likely isn't going to want to play 15 Minutres per game, but Bargnani HAS TO PLAY ALOT OF MINUTES if we want him to develop .....

In the end Colangelo simply just didn't fully believe in Bargnani until now ( Since he turned down some pretty good trades ..... Howard )
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

FALSE!!! WE ARE FAR BETTER WITH CALDERON. ARE YOU CRAZY??

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrcp3
Just think why would Colangelo bring in a BIG ( O'Neil ) when we already had our big of the " Future " ( Bargnani ) .......

Because before this week Colangelo never really believed in Bargnani or else he wouldn't of spent our MAIN trading chip on a another big like O'Neil ......

If Colangelo fully believed in Bargnani from day 1 he would of traded Ford for a wing player instead, and were were some offers at the time back then .......

But now it's a pain in the a$$ because Bargnani is playing great and showing us why he was the big of the future for us, and O'Neil most likely isn't going to want to play 15 Minutres per game, but Bargnani HAS TO PLAY ALOT OF MINUTES if we want him to develop .....

In the end Colangelo simply just didn't fully believe in Bargnani until now ( Since he turned down some pretty good trades ..... Howard )

False. BC had believed more in Bargnani than any other else. He was our nš1 pick. And this season has sorrounded with help in O'neal. now with O'neal coming of the bench we have a replacement with Bosh and Bargnani.

The mistake in BC has been to believe in our wing players. Thinking that will be enough for the season. And I was believe it too, but clearly they are playing below the average. We need stronger defense on wings, and someone with driblings abilities.

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Old 01-10-2009, 05:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroWise
FALSE!!! WE ARE FAR BETTER WITH CALDERON. ARE YOU CRAZY??



False. BC had believed more in Bargnani than any other else. He was our nš1 pick. And this season has sorrounded with help in O'neal. now with O'neal coming of the bench we have a replacement with Bosh and Bargnani.

The mistake in BC has been to believe in our wing players. Thinking that will be enough for the season. And I was believe it too, but clearly they are playing below the average. We need stronger defense on wings, and someone with driblings abilities.


Wrong,

Wait and see how long O'Neil will come off the bench for ...... it will only take some time until he demands to be in the starting line up ..... which will force Bargnani back too the bench ......

As for the wings, we need someone who can score on the wings and put pressure on the other teams guards .... right now the other teams guards don't even have to play defense because our guards aren't agressive and aren't scoring the ball ( Team's we lost too )

Last edited by jrcp3 : 01-10-2009 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Do you think Jose, Parker, Willy, Roko are hard to guard on a nightly basis?

NO ..... you just stand and let them shoot the ball ........

Good teams make the apposing teams players actually work on defense ....

Right now Bosh, O'Neil, Bargnani are the only players making the other teams defenders work ....
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: True or False?: Are we a better team without Calderon?

Many people in this forum think that 2 all-stars players make a team. That a wing player and Bosh is enough to win a championship, even if we hadn't a center or we had the bench full of scrub.

But the fact is that around 8 players are needed to win a match. And two of them can be injured easily, so you need around 10 quality players to be a contender.

Several things have changed since I wrote this http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...6&postcount=12
Solomon and Ukic are playing as it was expected, Parker has returned to his level and Bargnani is being consistent. With Bosh, Moon, Graham, Kapono and Voshkul you have 9 guys playing at a good level. that's what you need to win matches (not to win a championship, though). With Calderon and O'Neal the team will improve even more.

BTW, Solomon better than Calderon running the fastbreak? are you serious? Solomon makes his job, but he can be barely called a PG!
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