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Old 01-13-2009, 03:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
The O'Neal trade was a waste of assets now that the Raptors seem to be firmly set with Bargnani at C. Wouldn't it have been smarter to get at least one long-term piece to put around Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani for those 3 assets? Apparently not. O'Neal is now nothing more than a stop-gap player for Toronto, the 08/09 and 09/10 seasons will now be throwaway years and who knows what the plan for this team is at this point.

I really think BC will pull a deal soon with JO.. a blockbuster. But i won't be surprised that they play JO coming off the bench until the deadline.

BTW, congrats to Bokes on 5000th post.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:32 PM   #17
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Sekman
I really think BC will pull a deal soon with JO.. a blockbuster. But i won't be surprised that they play JO coming off the bench until the deadline.

BTW, congrats to Bokes on 5000th post.
Thanks
and I hope you're right.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:43 PM   #18
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Sekman
I really think BC will pull a deal soon with JO.. a blockbuster. But i won't be surprised that they play JO coming off the bench until the deadline.

BTW, congrats to Bokes on 5000th post.

I definitely feel that's the same thing that's gonna happen even a second minor trade for some of the wings. I have a growing feeling it's gonna happen. Our sched also takes a huge upwards swing in the march through April sectors in which we can rip of a string of wins hopefully. If we can get within 4-5 games under or as close to .500 as possible...I will be happy.

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Old 01-13-2009, 03:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
So the Raptors traded Ford, Rasho and a 1st for the sole reason of giving Bargnani a "kick in the butt"? If that was true then I guess Colangelo will do anything to cater to Bargnani's success rather than the RAPTORS' success.

Why do that trade unless you think Bargnani can't play C and you need a good defender in the middle? Colangelo has been flip-flopping about the direction he is taking this team ever since he came to Toronto.

The O'Neal trade was a waste of assets now that the Raptors seem to be firmly set with Bargnani at C. Wouldn't it have been smarter to get at least one long-term piece to put around Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani for those 3 assets? Apparently not. O'Neal is now nothing more than a stop-gap player for Toronto, the 08/09 and 09/10 seasons will now be throwaway years and who knows what the plan for this team is at this point.

At that time, we really needed to cover our weakness. Everyone complained about our interior defense. Bosh Bosh and Bargnani couldn't do it, now we acquire O'neal and Bargnani is looking to get set. Colangelo is stuck on a black hole.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:13 PM   #20
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

The main reason of the JO acquisition was to ease Bargnani into the system and develop him. His defense had improved coming into the season (offseason training with JO and big man camps). Now that the team is doing good, JO wont hurry back from the injury. Its nothing major so his value doesnt decrease or atleast not by much. You know how they keep saying abt Roy tht he wasnt supposed to be this good this soon?? well neither was Bargnani. He is in his 3rd year and his potential was to be realized in 5 years. So we can only wait and watch how great Bosh and Bargnani can really be together in 2 years.
And the major reason for this change? JAY TRIANOOOOOO!!! what was Bargnani doing under Mitchell? thts right...not much! under Triano, not only Bargnani but others have shone too. look at Graham and Ukic's play. Mitchell whined abt not having assets on his team, players are garbage after Bosh and Calderon, blah blah blah whine whine whine....well Triano made the same players produce. lets keep him as our full time coach and not go looking for a new coach in the offseason.


ALL HAIL TRIANO!!
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

oh and CONGRATS ON YOUR 5000th POST MAN!!
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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The main reason of the JO acquisition was to ease Bargnani into the system and develop him.
And that's a good enough reason to give up three of the team's best trade assets at the time? To help Bargnani's development?
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
So the Raptors traded Ford, Rasho and a 1st for the sole reason of giving Bargnani a "kick in the butt"? If that was true then I guess Colangelo will do anything to cater to Bargnani's success rather than the RAPTORS' success.

Why do that trade unless you think Bargnani can't play C and you need a good defender in the middle? Colangelo has been flip-flopping about the direction he is taking this team ever since he came to Toronto.

The O'Neal trade was a waste of assets now that the Raptors seem to be firmly set with Bargnani at C. Wouldn't it have been smarter to get at least one long-term piece to put around Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani for those 3 assets? Apparently not. O'Neal is now nothing more than a stop-gap player for Toronto, the 08/09 and 09/10 seasons will now be throwaway years and who knows what the plan for this team is at this point.


Bro, all your posts seem to depress me lol.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:49 PM   #24
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
And that's a good enough reason to give up three of the team's best trade assets at the time? To help Bargnani's development?
That's my main issue. Not that he hasn't traded Bargnani but rather that he's put Bargnani's development as his #1 goal, and winning as a secondary goal.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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Originally Posted by bokes15
That's my main issue. Not that he hasn't traded Bargnani but rather that he's put Bargnani's development as his #1 goal, and winning as a secondary goal.
Pretty much. Although developing Bargnani should help the Raptors win going forward, this seems a bit extreme.

Was Bargnani really not going to do this without O'Neal's presence on the team? Since it seems like Colangelo has been committed to Bargnani since day 1, wouldn't it have been better to trade all or some of those assets to fill those huge voids on the wings rather than a 2-year stop-gap player?

I liked the trade but I'm not one who considers Bargnani as an ideal C. Colangelo clearly thinks otherwise which is why the O'Neal trade is a gigantic waste and sets the Raptors plan to contend (is there even one?) back quite a bit.

Ford, Rasho, 1st rounder for a "mentor" for Bargnani and 2 years of losing.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Congrats on hitting 5000!

Regarding the Raps, I think some more evaluation time is needed with the entire roster intact. So far the O'Neal trade has had mediocre results but I think that Bargnani's emergence has unfortunately put even more uncertainty regarding the future vision of the team (good short term success though).

Although I do prefer a traditional C, if Bargnani doesn't lose it all when O'Neal returns. O'Neal would be my choice to trade. O'Neal has played very well (unfortunately he was injured twice after his good streaks) but I don't think the Raps are Bosh/O'Neal/Calderon + one more good player from being contenders.

Now don't get me wrong, Bosh/Calderon/Bargnani+others is mediocre as well but at least it will be a younger core and with more cap flexibility as well as more room for internal growth (Bargnani).

This roster was apparently supposed to win now and it's apparent now that Colangelo has failed in that regard. I think right now he just wants to stay the course as well as get some more future assets. The plus side is that he realizes that the team is flawed, but he has to make adjustments while staying in the playoff hunt/appeasing Bosh.

However, this pretty much a treadmill of mediocrity which sucks draft pick wise and 1st round drubbings are not much fun either. I'm not as extreme as Qwyjibo is when I find solace in losses (yay draft picks!) but it is a valid point that treadmilling is the worst possible spot for a team.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:29 PM   #27
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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However, this pretty much a treadmill of mediocrity which sucks draft pick wise and 1st round drubbings are not much fun either. I'm not as extreme as Qwyjibo is when I find solace in losses (yay draft picks!) but it is a valid point that treadmilling is the worst possible spot for a team.

That's exactly why I don't want the Raptors in the playoffs this year. The roster is very short on trade assets as I don't see reports of teams dying to get O'Neal, Parker, Kapono or whatever. That is what frustrates me so much with this flip-flopping of direction and the, now, waste of 3 solid assets the Raptors had.

Since it seems like Bosh, Bargnani and Calderon are here to stay, the only realistic way to build up the core talent level is through the draft IMO.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

Bosh-Bargnani-O'Neal form an excellent interior rotation, when O'Neal is healthy.

O'Neal can't play lots of minutes and Bargnani wasn't a sure bet last summer, so you needed the three players in your roster and the trade made perfect sense.

But JO is more injured than we hoped when he came.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

And another season of Rasho wouldn't have helped ease Bargs? It's not like JO has led to more wins. The trade was dreadful because no matter what people say, it was to win now and impress Bosh to stay. It has not done that and has made us worse. JO is the same guy he's been....injured a lot, shoots a ton of jumpers. Why take a leap of faith on an injury prone big man. If the gamble fails, your roster is in trouble.

I really think we have the worst constructed roster in the NBA. Pennies from the cap with only two players that would start on many NBA teams. Little in the way of youth and upside, little to trade and we are fighting for a playoff spot in the east - and outside of the top 3, the east still isn't good and the bottom part is dreadful. Imagine this team was out west.

Last edited by RapsFan : 01-13-2009 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: 5000th post, and my thoughts on the current state of the Raps

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And another season of Rasho wouldn't have helped ease Bargs? It's not like JO has led to more wins.

I really think we have the worst constructed roster in the NBA. Pennies from the cap with only two players that would start on many NBA teams. Little in the way of youth and upside, little to trade and we are fighting for a playoff spot in the east - and outside of the top 3, the east still isn't good and the bottom part is dreadful. Imagine this team was out west.
Exactly. Our only young potential is Bargnani. Bosh can improve some, but we pretty much know what type of player he's going to be. An argument could be made for a significant improvement of Ukic over the next 3-4 years, but other than that what else do we have? This team has so many holes, so few young players with upside/potential and very little trading assets to work with. That's why i'm hoping for a big move but i'm not holding my breath.
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