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Old 09-23-2006, 05:18 PM   #31
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Magic was 6-9 buddy.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:22 PM   #32
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If Bird were in the league today, he would not be the clear cut best SF in the game.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:23 PM   #33
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What are they going to do. Prince couldn't come close to posting him up, and it's not like he's got the handle to blow by him. Rasheed doesn't blow by anybody, and if his turnaround is dropping, then he'll do to Bird what he does to everybody else. Score 8 points and lose focus.
Bird did go out and defend guys like Dr. J, Dominique, and that Jordan through the legs three times pull up, that's actually Bird who defends him pretty well. If Bird was good enough to defend those guys and still be a top 7player of all time, then I'm sure he'd figure something out to deal with the offensive threats that are Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince. There's nights where those guys's don't score on anybody anyway.
And Bird would destroy Prince in the post by the way, and Sheed couldn't come close to staying in front of him by the way.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:32 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
What are they going to do. Prince couldn't come close to posting him up, and it's not like he's got the handle to blow by him. Rasheed doesn't blow by anybody, and if his turnaround is dropping, then he'll do to Bird what he does to everybody else. Score 8 points and lose focus.
Bird did go out and defend guys like Dr. J, Dominique, and that Jordan through the legs three times pull up, that's actually Bird who defends him pretty well. If Bird was good enough to defend those guys and still be a top 7player of all time, then I'm sure he'd figure something out to deal with the offensive threats that are Rasheed Wallace and Tayshaun Prince. There's nights where those guys's don't score on anybody anyway.
And Bird would destroy Prince in the post by the way, and Sheed couldn't come close to staying in front of him by the way.
The only problem is that cornbread maxwell not bird guarded those guys..
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:44 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Carbine
If Bird were in the league today, he would not be the clear cut best SF in the game.

Sure he would. The only comp would be Lebron, but Bird would put up 27/10/7 to Lebron's 31/7/6 and he also has huge edges in mental toughness, clutch play, and even defense.

And to say that Dirk is more athletic than Bird is silly. No way. I actually agree with eliteballer for once. Pre-injury Bird ('80-'86) was more athletic than Dirk -- end-to-end speed, agility, hops, body control/fluidity etc.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:48 PM   #36
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Cornbread Maxwell guarded those guys the same way Ira Newble guards the tougher threes in the league for Lebron James. Whom by the way, Bird is a better defender than, and who is more similar to Bird than any other player, in spite of every other comparison that's been made.
Bird is a similar type of, and level defender as Shane Battier. A team defender who guards spaces. I've never seen a player break up more fast breaks then Bird. A 2 on 1 hardly seemed like an advantage. Defense, like offense, is more than a matchup of individual skills. And Charles Oakley would be a good defender today, as he was yesterday, and would be the day before that, because he knew how to position himself. There is a lot more to the game then athleticism.
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Old 09-23-2006, 05:56 PM   #37
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Sure he would. The only comp would be Lebron, but Bird would put up 27/10/7 to Lebron's 31/7/6 and he also has huge edges in mental toughness, clutch play, and even defense.

How do you know what numbers he would put up?
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:01 PM   #38
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How do you know what numbers he would put up?

Because he was a better athlete and offensive player than Dirk, a better rebounder than a guy like Webber or Kaman, and a better passer than Lebron. So I estimated.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:03 PM   #39
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Because he was a better athlete and offensive player than Dirk, a better rebounder than a guy like Webber or Kaman, and a better passer than Lebron. So I estimated.

So which team is he playing for and what teammates does he have since you estimated? Hard to reach figures without people around him.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:10 PM   #40
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Sure he would. The only comp would be Lebron, but Bird would put up 27/10/7 to Lebron's 31/7/6 and he also has huge edges in mental toughness, clutch play, and even defense.

Nah man. Bird would not be an unquestionably better player then LeBron is. The stats are basically a wash, and like it or not the majority of people like to judge players by stats.

Bird would be considered the best SF in the league by me, but it isn't a clear cut decision. Especially when I don't even know how much better LeBron has gotten over the course of the summer. He could come back with an improved defensive effort, which would make the decision on Bird or LeBron even closer then what it was.

LeBron has shown that he is clutch in the playoffs. Clutch ability is obviously an advantage for Bird, but not to the extent of domination.

LeBron was spectacular in the post season as far as clutch play is concerned. Hit a few very clutch shots in the last seconds of the game vs Washington is I remember correctly.

Maybe not memorable, but effectiveness > memorable any day.
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Old 09-23-2006, 06:51 PM   #41
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The idea that in a league where Steve Nash won the last two MVPs Larry Bird would somehow be unable to fucntion at his prime level due to athletic ability is crazy. Hes Larry Bird. A basically flawless offensive player who ate at one time or another everyone to guard him from small speedy types, to athletic swingmen, to long athletic bigmen, to heavy power forwards. If Michael Cooper, Dennis rodman Larry Nance(who might have no athletic equal his size right now. If he does its Stro Swift), and so on couldntstop him whats he gonna see so amazing now?

I remember the game vs the Blazers where he gave them like 50/14/12 with a few steals and a block and the game winner while being guarded by a combo of Drexler, Kersey, and Cliff Robinson. Two dunk contest finalists and another long athletic good defender. And this as his final season. He had a bad back and bad knees. Athletic ability didnt make Larry Bird. Though he was more athletic than given credit for. I remember when I posted the Bird video I made people being shocked he could do 180 dunks in traffic as if they thought he was glued to the floor.

Larry Bird had as many post moves as anyone currently does. Was as good a midrange shooter as anyone currently is. Had 3 point range though he knew it wasnt the best shot to take. Would have no equal as a passer in the league outside a few pointguards(Guys like Nash, Kidd, and Tj Ford). Hes probably gonna average 8-10 rebounds up to 11 depending on the team hes on.

And hes not gonna just get destroyed on D. If he could stay on the floor vs the Badboy Pistons with Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Laimbeer, Microwave, Adrian Dantley on the team or vs the 76ers with Moses Malone, Barkley, Doctor J, Andrew toney, and Mo Cheeks? Or the Bucks with Moncrief, Pressey, Ricky Pierce, and Cummings? Or the Lakers with Magic, KAreem, Scott, Worthy, Coop, and AC? Blazers with Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Kiki, and so on? Kiki, Issel, Alex English, and David Thompson(briefly)?

Teams were stacked in his day. And he still managed to put in 35-40 minutes a night and do waaaaay more damage vs whoever guarded him than they did to him. Even if he needs to be hidden on D(and he really doesnt) it doesnt stop anyone else from playing today. Larry Bird as he was in his prime has no equal today. Tim Duncan is closest because hes a better defender but nobody who can approach him as a total offensive player(not just scorer) is also ahead of him enough on D to really be more effective than him.

Not like he was out there with his head up his ass on D. He was playing great team D by knowing where to be and when. Hes not gonna throw your shot but he will get his hand where you want to release it before you get it there. He was great off the ball. Stripping people in the post. Making you alter a shot. Knowing where you wanted to go. And he often made the big defensive play. Won a number of games with a key steal or even block. You could argue his greatest play was defensive.

Larry Bird today is gonna do the same things he did to the athletic and non athletic people he did 20 years ago. Score in the post if youre smaller. Go around you if youre bigger. Beat you up off the ball. Make you pay if you go under the screen by making his jumpers. Pick you apart with passing if you double. Talk a lot of ****. And then back it up.

Larry Bird is not gonna look any worse because of more athletic defenders. He might look even better. I pity Shawn Marion the day he has to guard Larry Bird one on one.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
The idea that in a league where Steve Nash won the last two MVPs Larry Bird would somehow be unable to fucntion at his prime level due to athletic ability is crazy. Hes Larry Bird. A basically flawless offensive player who ate at one time or another everyone to guard him from small speedy types, to athletic swingmen, to long athletic bigmen, to heavy power forwards. If Michael Cooper, Dennis rodman Larry Nance(who might have no athletic equal his size right now. If he does its Stro Swift), and so on couldntstop him whats he gonna see so amazing now?

I remember the game vs the Blazers where he gave them like 50/14/12 with a few steals and a block and the game winner while being guarded by a combo of Drexler, Kersey, and Cliff Robinson. Two dunk contest finalists and another long athletic good defender. And this as his final season. He had a bad back and bad knees. Athletic ability didnt make Larry Bird. Though he was more athletic than given credit for. I remember when I posted the Bird video I made people being shocked he could do 180 dunks in traffic as if they thought he was glued to the floor.

Larry Bird had as many post moves as anyone currently does. Was as good a midrange shooter as anyone currently is. Had 3 point range though he knew it wasnt the best shot to take. Would have no equal as a passer in the league outside a few pointguards(Guys like Nash, Kidd, and Tj Ford). Hes probably gonna average 8-10 rebounds up to 11 depending on the team hes on.

And hes not gonna just get destroyed on D. If he could stay on the floor vs the Badboy Pistons with Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Laimbeer, Microwave, Adrian Dantley on the team or vs the 76ers with Moses Malone, Barkley, Doctor J, Andrew toney, and Mo Cheeks? Or the Bucks with Moncrief, Pressey, Ricky Pierce, and Cummings? Or the Lakers with Magic, KAreem, Scott, Worthy, Coop, and AC? Blazers with Drexler, Kersey, Porter, Kiki, and so on? Kiki, Issel, Alex English, and David Thompson(briefly)?

Teams were stacked in his day. And he still managed to put in 35-40 minutes a night and do waaaaay more damage vs whoever guarded him than they did to him. Even if he needs to be hidden on D(and he really doesnt) it doesnt stop anyone else from playing today. Larry Bird as he was in his prime has no equal today. Tim Duncan is closest because hes a better defender but nobody who can approach him as a total offensive player(not just scorer) is also ahead of him enough on D to really be more effective than him.

Not like he was out there with his head up his ass on D. He was playing great team D by knowing where to be and when. Hes not gonna throw your shot but he will get his hand where you want to release it before you get it there. He was great off the ball. Stripping people in the post. Making you alter a shot. Knowing where you wanted to go. And he often made the big defensive play. Won a number of games with a key steal or even block. You could argue his greatest play was defensive.

Larry Bird today is gonna do the same things he did to the athletic and non athletic people he did 20 years ago. Score in the post if youre smaller. Go around you if youre bigger. Beat you up off the ball. Make you pay if you go under the screen by making his jumpers. Pick you apart with passing if you double. Talk a lot of ****. And then back it up.

Larry Bird is not gonna look any worse because of more athletic defenders. He might look even better. I pity Shawn Marion the day he has to guard Larry Bird one on one.

Thank you, KBlaze. I couldn't have said it better myself. Prime Bird was a monster. Absolutely dominant. These young'ns have no idea...
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:24 PM   #43
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There's a whole thread around here with people drooling over the physical specimen that is Boris Diaw because of his multidimensional game, and yet Larry Bird couldn't hack it in today's game.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:26 PM   #44
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One, he wasnt better defensively than Dirk, yes i know he made some all defensive second teams but everyone knows that was a joke. As for offense, he would be amazing offensively in any era but his defense would be more exposed now with more individual offensive talent and more one on one offenses.

of course bird was better deffensivelly than "irk" nowitzky, bird was a better rebounder and a much more willing stoper than dirk is.
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Old 09-23-2006, 07:27 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
There's a whole thread around here with people drooling over the physical specimen that is Boris Diaw because of his multidimensional game, and yet Larry Bird couldn't hack it in today's game.
There is no question whatsoever that bird would be better than boris diaw. He would be a top 3 at worst offensive player in the nba. I dont really see any argument with that but he was nowhere near as athletic as diaw is.
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