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Old 01-24-2009, 04:40 PM   #16
KB42PAH
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pippen


I am very proud of you Lakers fans here. Honesty.

A few months ago a troll like the OP would be supported by most Laker fans just because of temporary linked agendas. As bad a poster as the OP is, there is no denying that Insidehoops is a much better place than it was in May when I joined.


Its well-researched, you are just in denial as usual.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB42PAH
Before Jordan, SG were usually 6''2-6''5, now they go up to even 6''8 or 6''9. I mean just watch every Jordan game, and you will see a few things.

1) He was generally guarded by alot shorter defender (2-3 inches shorter)
2) He was able to back his shorter defender down 1 on 1.


Kobe Defenders:

Durant 6''9
Lebron 6''9
AK47: 6''9
Prince 6''9
Battier 6''8
Chandler 6'8
Outlaw: 6''8
Marion 6''8
Pierce: 6''8
Posey 6''8
Johnson: 6''8
Harrington: 6''8
Bowen 6''7
Artest: 6''7
K.Martin 6''8
Bell: 6''5
Davis: 6''4


Jordan Defenders:

Russell 6''7
Ehlo: 6''6
Payton: 6''4
Ainge: 6''4
Dumars: 6'3
Starks 6"3

Kobe faces better more bigger, stronger, athletic players night in and night out against zone defenses (illegal in Jordan's day). All the elite defenders of the 80s were 6'4" and under.


Typical SG's jordan faced 6''2 -6''5, alot more white players
Typical SG Kobe faces 6''5-6''9, alot less white defenders


MJ faced the likes of Craig Ehlo, Byron Scott, Danny Ainge, Jeff Hornacek, Jeff Malone, Ron Harper, Ricky Pierce, Clyde Drexler, John Starks, Voshon Lenard, Eddie Jones, Vinny Del Negro, Rolando Blackman, Sleepy Floyd, Reggie Lewis, Joe Dumars, Mitch Richmond, Reggie Miller, Penny Hardaway,
Mitch Richmond, John Starks, Steve Smith, Gerald Wilkins, Bernard King, Reggie Theus, Ricky Pierce, Reggie Miller, Joe Dumars, Rex Chapman, Reggie Lewis, Hersey Hawkins, Willie Anderson, Jeff Malone, Vernon Maxwell, Nick Anderson, Tony Campbell, Rolando Blackmon, Reggie Williams, Jeff Hornacek, Vinny Del Negro, Nate McMillan, Ron Harper, Rory Sparrow, Kendall Gill, Stacy Augmon, Dan Majerle, Eddie Jones, David Wesley, Rex Walters, Jim Jackson, J.R. Rider, Calbert Cheaney, Kerry Kittles, and Bobby Phills, etc


Kobe faces likes of Dwyane Wade, Lebron James, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Cuttino Mobley, Corey Maggette, Carmleo Anthony, Jason Richardson, Manu Ginobili, Reggie Miller (post prime), Raja Bell, Allen Iverson, Joe Johnson, Paul Pierce, Scottie Pippen (post prime), Richard Jefferson, Rip Hamilton, J.R Smith, Shawn Marion, James Posey, Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest, Raja Bell, Tayshawn Prince, Shane battier, Andre Kirelinko, Brandon Roy, Gilbert Arenas, Caron Butler, Bo Outlaw, Kenyon Martin, Chanucey Billups, Jason Kidd, Josh Howard, etc

Your on Kobe's D!ck so much... stop before you fck around and get pregnant
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

to the OP

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Old 01-24-2009, 04:45 PM   #19
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders



let's ether this b1tch

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Old 01-24-2009, 04:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

did kobe tell you that he had to go up against some difficult defenders when you were sucking his d*ck in the bathroom of a "star studded" wedding that your crashed? keep following people into bathrooms, you friggin lunatic stalker.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:48 PM   #21
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB42PAH
Its well-researched, you are just in denial as usual.
denial of what?

Again, your logic says taller player = better defender, which is not true. Your zone logic confuses me too because against a player who is big and can shoot, like Kobe, it shouldn't bother him that much since he is the "GOAT shooter." Or are you trying to exaggerate that the defense is THAT much better now?

I can see how small player like Iverson would struggle vs zone (even though he didn't) or KJ type of player who lived on penetration, or even LeBron with subpar shot, but Kobe? You want to infer that Kobe (who is among most skilled players ever) should struggle but he is soooo good that he overcomes it.

"Testament to how good Kobe is."

-KB42PAH

And on top of that you insult the great 1990s defenders and acts as if Jordan and other greats played isolation all game for every game. Please keep it up.

Last edited by Scott Pippen : 01-24-2009 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Realist
Remember, last year's Finals fanboy? Jordan would have blown right past Paul Pierce into that wide open lane (remember, bigs can't camp out down there anymore) and would have had a field day. Kobe couldn't...and he didn't.

A lot of players that are faster than Kobe has problems with the Celtics defense...
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:51 PM   #23
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pippen
denial of what?

Again, your logic says taller player = better defender

I just state the facts. The defenders are taller and more athletic - its not disputable.
Quote:
Your zone logic confuses me too because against a player who is big and can shoot, like Kobe, it shouldn't bother him that much since he is the "GOAT shooter." Or are you trying to exaggerate that the defense is THAT much better now?

Even the best shooter can't make everyshot. It also is hard to shoot when yo have 2-3 players draped on you.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:51 PM   #24
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

So guys...whats the recent Movie you watched....and which one you like?
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:51 PM   #25
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Pippen
denial of what?

Again, your logic says taller player = better defender, which is not true. Your zone logic confuses me too because against a player who is big and can shoot, like Kobe, it shouldn't bother him that much since he is the "GOAT shooter." Or are you trying to exaggerate that the defense is THAT much better now?

I can see how small player like Iverson would struggle vs zone or KJ type of player who lived on penetration, or even LeBron with subpar shot, but Kobe? You want to infer that Kobe should struggle but he is so good that he overcomes it. And on top of that you insult the great 1990s defenders and acts as if Jordan played isolation all game for every game. Please keep it up.


and like i said in another thread (which is why alborz started this thread):

SURVEY OF HEIGHT, WEIGHT, AGE AND EXPERIENCE SINCE 1985
Team Height Weight Age Exp.
1985-86 6 7.36 214.40 26.72 3.85
1986-87 6 7.62 215.46 26.53 3.83
1987-88 6 7.38 215.61 27.01 4.10
1988-89 6 7.31 215.58 26.92 4.01
1989-90 6 7.09 214.82 26.79 3.95
1990-91 6 7.16 216.16 27.01 4.08
1991-92 6 7.04 216.47 27.09 4.20
1992-93 6 7.06 219.86 27.19 4.15
1993-94 6 7.34 221.68 27.26 4.28
1994-95 6 7.19 221.50 27.43 4.56
1995-96 6 7.27 223.66 27.56 4.42
1996-97 6 7.20 223.67 27.74 4.63
1997-98 6 7.11 222.95 27.82 4.82
1998-99 6 7.10 222.85 27.82 4.81
1999-00 6 7.26 224.68 27.95 5.20
2000-01 6 7.03 223.47 27.75 5.01
2001-02 6 7.26 224.05 27.47 4.82
2002-03 6 7.40 225.40 27.34 4.73
2003-04 6' 7.31" 225.45 27.22 4.76
2004-05 6' 7.26" 224.29 27.03 4.61


... average player height in 1985: 6'7.36"
... average player height in 2004: 6'7.26"

http://www.nba.com/news/survey_2004.html

i know this is not broken down by position... but the players now are essentially the same size as they have been for at least the past 20-25 years. and its a reasonable assumption that the distribution among positions is relatively consistent.

so the nba is the same size as it was for the past 20-25 years... but the individual defenders average height that guarded the games best shooting guard back when jordan played vs when kobe plays now has changed???

alborz makes no sense.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:54 PM   #26
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Kobe faces much longer and more athletic defenders.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

kb24ah is incredibly sad, ther amount of trashy threads he comes up with to try and position kobe on the same level as jordan is pathetic.its gone past obsessional. he gets owned by people numerous times in his agrguments but just doges round what he dosent have any answer to. its ridiculous this nobhead hasnt been banned already
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruslan
**** this troll.


HAHA!
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:59 PM   #29
Scott Pippen
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by gotbacon23
and like i said in another thread (which is why alborz started this thread):

SURVEY OF HEIGHT, WEIGHT, AGE AND EXPERIENCE SINCE 1985
Team Height Weight Age Exp.
1985-86 6’ 7.36” 214.40 26.72 3.85
1986-87 6’ 7.62” 215.46 26.53 3.83
1987-88 6’ 7.38” 215.61 27.01 4.10
1988-89 6’ 7.31” 215.58 26.92 4.01
1989-90 6’ 7.09” 214.82 26.79 3.95
1990-91 6’ 7.16” 216.16 27.01 4.08
1991-92 6’ 7.04” 216.47 27.09 4.20
1992-93 6’ 7.06” 219.86 27.19 4.15
1993-94 6’ 7.34” 221.68 27.26 4.28
1994-95 6’ 7.19” 221.50 27.43 4.56
1995-96 6’ 7.27” 223.66 27.56 4.42
1996-97 6’ 7.20” 223.67 27.74 4.63
1997-98 6’ 7.11” 222.95 27.82 4.82
1998-99 6’ 7.10” 222.85 27.82 4.81
1999-00 6’ 7.26” 224.68 27.95 5.20
2000-01 6’ 7.03” 223.47 27.75 5.01
2001-02 6’ 7.26” 224.05 27.47 4.82
2002-03 6’ 7.40” 225.40 27.34 4.73
2003-04 6' 7.31" 225.45 27.22 4.76
2004-05 6' 7.26" 224.29 27.03 4.61


... average player height in 1985: 6'7.36"
... average player height in 2004: 6'7.26"

http://www.nba.com/news/survey_2004.html

i know this is not broken down by position... but the players now are essentially the same size as they have been for at least the past 20-25 years. and its a reasonable assumption that the distribution among positions is relatively consistent.

so the nba is the same size as it was for the past 20-25 years... but the individual defenders average height that guarded the games best shooting guard back when jordan played vs when kobe plays now has changed???

alborz makes no sense.


You see this is the problem. You bring facts to a troll to try and prove an already poor point trying to hint at something (tall height =/= better defender). Then you fall into the trap.

No matter how accurate the facts (statistics) are you are always wrong. Because there is no such thing as double standard with them. As I said before they are always right and you are always wrong. If you believe otherwise you are wasting time. The same goes for PB or any troll here on insidehoops. But the 2 most dedicated ones are KB42PAH and PB for Kobe/LeBron.

I must hand it to KB42PAH. I never thought anyone would replace Poseidon here.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Era Comparison: Michael Jordan Defenders vs Kobe Bryant defenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB42PAH
I just state the facts. The defenders are taller and more athletic - its not disputable.

First, you didn't prove anything. You didn't give a true average, you just posted selected examples. Unless you have the average height of every PLAYER who guarded both guys (who weren't always SG's), then you have no point. All you have is selective reasoning.

Also, here is a FACT that is not disputable: height isn't the determining factor of a good defender. Things like strength, length, quickness, footwork, etc are much more important than pure height and athleticism. There are literally dozens of players who are tall and athletic who are NOT good defenders in this league.

Quote:
Even the best shooter can't make everyshot. It also is hard to shoot when yo have 2-3 players draped on you.

Then how is he the best? "He is the best unless he's pressured by a top defense ". Doesn't that mean he's NOT the best?
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