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Old 02-17-2009, 08:15 PM   #1
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Default Run and Gun?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3914158

Quote:
Marion eager to run again

TORONTO -- Freed from the shackles of the Miami Heat's half-court offense, Shawn Marion hopes a trade to the Toronto Raptors will bring a return to the run-and-gun game he once played in Phoenix.

Marion said Raptors coach Jay Triano plans to push the tempo now that the versatile forward has joined the team. Marion said it will be a welcome change from the more conservative offense he played in Miami.

"The game is supposed to be exciting," Marion said Tuesday as he and Banks were introduced to the Toronto media. "I'm tired of playing that boring style in the half court, watching everybody just go up and run plays, call this play. That's boring. The fans don't enjoy it either. People like to see you get up and down, have high-scoring games and dunks and all that stuff. That's what it's about."

Raptors general manager Bryan Colangelo, who drafted Marion in 1999 when he was GM of the Suns, expects the four-time All-Star to fit right in.

"It's a chance for Shawn to be a little bit more useful to his team," Colangelo said. "I don't think they were fully maximizing his potential down in Miami. That was maybe a system thing more than anything else. I think the system here will work in his favor."It's the second time in the past year that Marion has moved down in the standings in a midseason trade, but he's more encouraged this time.


Colangelo called Marion "a better fit" than O'Neal was because of his ability to rebound and defend wing players, two of the Raptors' biggest shortcomings.

"Shawn can pretty much guard anybody in the league and has always been, I thought, a very solid defender," Colangelo said. "He's always been underrated as far as the perception of him. He's a very solid defender, solid rebounder and he finds ways to score. I can't think of a better complement to our team."

Marion and Banks will make their Toronto debut Wednesday when the Raptors host the Cleveland Cavaliers. The matchup with LeBron James, the league's leading scorer, will be an immediate test of Marion's defensive skills.

"He [James] is definitely a handful for anybody, regardless of what position you play," Marion said.

I dunno, I guess i'm actually kind of interested to see how he will be implemented and how this changes our overall team complexion.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:41 PM   #2
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

We could tell as soon as Jay took over that he wanted to run and when Roko and Solomon were the PG's he was able to do that but Jose isn't a PG who excels in the run & gun game.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

ermaine here we could never play up tempo, plus didn't like having 2 low post scores on at the same time.
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Old 02-17-2009, 08:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

It will interesting to see how Bosh's production is affected if a drastic tempo change is used. IIRC his production dipped during that short experiment at the start of the 2006 season.

But anyways, like Funk said, Jose is also not a good fit for that style of play so I don't think there will be that much of a difference as long as he is still at the point.
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Old 02-17-2009, 09:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

I just finished watching Shawn's media intro.

Most interesting points for me were:
1. Him talking about how he can guard positions 1-5 "easily" in his own words. I think one above average individual defender can't make up for a team of poor individual defenders, but regardless it will help significantly to have the guy to throw on the Lebron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's... However, I can see him feeling like he's out there amongst the wolves on some nights being the ONLY guy who's capable or willing.

2. He talked more than once about his "great" relationship with Brian Colangelo. BC even smiled once while Marion was talking about it.

3. Not that i'm gonna take this as a concrete fact, but Marion said that he hopes to stay here long term. And I'm actually starting to believe that his relationship with BC + if we have a good final push, he may re-sign with us.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Honestly, I would LOVE for Marion to sign for a contract around 10 mil. He might be worth more, but if he wants this team to win, he will have to give up some. Since Triano wants this run and gun thing to happen, it might be worth while. Trade deadline is tomorrow so I wonder what will happen now that we have 4 PG's, 1 really good defensive player and a shot hungry center....And Bosh....

I hope Solomon can be dealt. The guy can score. Not the greatest shot, but he could be a good backup in the league but not a starter. Maybe package Solomon with Kapono and maybe get a defensive center.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:44 PM   #7
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Low
I hope Solomon can be dealt. The guy can score. Not the greatest shot, but he could be a good backup in the league but not a starter. Maybe package Solomon with Kapono and maybe get a defensive center.

Varejao anybody?
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I just finished watching Shawn's media intro.

Most interesting points for me were:
1. Him talking about how he can guard positions 1-5 "easily" in his own words. I think one above average individual defender can't make up for a team of poor individual defenders, but regardless it will help significantly to have the guy to throw on the Lebron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's... However, I can see him feeling like he's out there amongst the wolves on some nights being the ONLY guy who's capable or willing.

2. He talked more than once about his "great" relationship with Brian Colangelo. BC even smiled once while Marion was talking about it.

3. Not that i'm gonna take this as a concrete fact, but Marion said that he hopes to stay here long term. And I'm actually starting to believe that his relationship with BC + if we have a good final push, he may re-sign with us.

Maybe Shawn's defensive mentality will rub off on the rest of the players?

Except for Jose, he's physically unable to defend.
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:52 PM   #9
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I just finished watching Shawn's media intro.

Most interesting points for me were:
1. Him talking about how he can guard positions 1-5 "easily" in his own words. I think one above average individual defender can't make up for a team of poor individual defenders, but regardless it will help significantly to have the guy to throw on the Lebron's, the Kobe's, the Wade's... However, I can see him feeling like he's out there amongst the wolves on some nights being the ONLY guy who's capable or willing.

2. He talked more than once about his "great" relationship with Brian Colangelo. BC even smiled once while Marion was talking about it.

3. Not that i'm gonna take this as a concrete fact, but Marion said that he hopes to stay here long term. And I'm actually starting to believe that his relationship with BC + if we have a good final push, he may re-sign with us.

I wouldn't be against re-signing Marion.. the real question is what price do you want to sign him at, and what price will Marion ask for this off season?
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Old 02-17-2009, 10:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
I wouldn't be against re-signing Marion.. the real question is what price do you want to sign him at, and what price will Marion ask for this off season?

10 million per year would be an ideal price on a 3 year basis. If he asks for 12 million, it wouldn't be impossible to re-sign him since we have his Bird rights.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:04 PM   #11
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
I wouldn't be against re-signing Marion.. the real question is what price do you want to sign him at, and what price will Marion ask for this off season?
I believe as other have said that a 3 year/30 mill deal would be acceptable. There's only gonna be so many teams with cap space this summer and I don't think that anyone would throw bigger numbers than that at him. Also, the familiarity factor with Brian Colangelo will probably be a big factor. He talked about how him and BC are close and their families are close. I think it just really depends on if he ends up feeling wanted here.
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Old 02-18-2009, 12:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Basically, the Thunder and the Griz will have enough to make a max offer. Portland might, depending on what they do with their current FA's. Detroit could, but would have to give up AI & Rasheed, and Dumars will probably want to hold it for 2010.

The Hawks could have $20, but they'd have to let Bibby and Williams walk, and renounce the rights to Childress...so they'll more likely be around $6-8mm. Minny has $12 if they let McCants go, but will more likely be around $9.

This is from one of my earlier posts.
Teams with potential cap space
OKC (not much left after acquiring Chandler, approx 5 million)
Griz (would they want Marion, essentially the same player as Gay only older and less talented)
Portland (they may want him, but I doubt it, they want a PG, and they have a similar player in Outlaw who they only pay 4 million)
Atlanta (possible but they'd rather keep williams and they have josh smith)
Minnesota (doesn't seem like a good fit either, they have miller, gomes, kevin love. they'd probably rather find a young player and a pg)
Detroit (possibly but they have tayshawn, they may want matrix to be their PF but how much of their cap would they spend. THey want to big players in 2010).

Conclussion
The only team with more than the mid-level exception and reasonable interest is detroit and I would be surprised if they were to give up 10 million of their space on Marion to play out of position when they have their eye on bigger fish like lebron (who also plays SF).

I don't think it is necessary to thrown 10 million/ season at a guy who will not likely be offered more than 5.5 by any other team.

I would offer 3-4 years at 7 million/season MAX. And I expect he would take the money.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:55 AM   #13
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
This is from one of my earlier posts.
Teams with potential cap space
OKC (not much left after acquiring Chandler, approx 5 million)
Griz (would they want Marion, essentially the same player as Gay only older and less talented)
Portland (they may want him, but I doubt it, they want a PG, and they have a similar player in Outlaw who they only pay 4 million)
Atlanta (possible but they'd rather keep williams and they have josh smith)
Minnesota (doesn't seem like a good fit either, they have miller, gomes, kevin love. they'd probably rather find a young player and a pg)
Detroit (possibly but they have tayshawn, they may want matrix to be their PF but how much of their cap would they spend. THey want to big players in 2010).

Conclussion
The only team with more than the mid-level exception and reasonable interest is detroit and I would be surprised if they were to give up 10 million of their space on Marion to play out of position when they have their eye on bigger fish like lebron (who also plays SF).

I don't think it is necessary to thrown 10 million/ season at a guy who will not likely be offered more than 5.5 by any other team.

I would offer 3-4 years at 7 million/season MAX. And I expect he would take the money.

You are forgetting the unlimited sign and trade options. Basically any team can have Marion if they can broker a deal. No way he gets between 5-7mill. It will be more.

As for the offense, I hope we run and gun. We aren't built for any other system. We might as well try and win that way because we aren't winning with D. I don't understand why Jose couldn't be elite running and gunning. He has the ability and IQ.
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:40 AM   #14
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
This is from one of my earlier posts.
Teams with potential cap space
OKC (not much left after acquiring Chandler, approx 5 million)
Griz (would they want Marion, essentially the same player as Gay only older and less talented)
Portland (they may want him, but I doubt it, they want a PG, and they have a similar player in Outlaw who they only pay 4 million)
Atlanta (possible but they'd rather keep williams and they have josh smith)
Minnesota (doesn't seem like a good fit either, they have miller, gomes, kevin love. they'd probably rather find a young player and a pg)
Detroit (possibly but they have tayshawn, they may want matrix to be their PF but how much of their cap would they spend. THey want to big players in 2010).

Conclussion
The only team with more than the mid-level exception and reasonable interest is detroit and I would be surprised if they were to give up 10 million of their space on Marion to play out of position when they have their eye on bigger fish like lebron (who also plays SF).

I don't think it is necessary to thrown 10 million/ season at a guy who will not likely be offered more than 5.5 by any other team.

I would offer 3-4 years at 7 million/season MAX. And I expect he would take the money.

Some interesting points. I agree we might be able to get him at a bargain: but if you pay him too much less than he thinks he's worth do you really think he will won't sulk his way through the contract? Marion has a delicate ego that has to be factored into any contract negotiation.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Run and Gun?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RapsFan
You are forgetting the unlimited sign and trade options. Basically any team can have Marion if they can broker a deal. No way he gets between 5-7mill. It will be more.

As for the offense, I hope we run and gun. We aren't built for any other system. We might as well try and win that way because we aren't winning with D. I don't understand why Jose couldn't be elite running and gunning. He has the ability and IQ.


He can only arrange a sign and trade if we are willing. And the other team has to give up equal salary, which means we have to take back equal salary. I predict we will see fewer sign and trades overall this off season because of the economy and 2010 free agent class.

As for his ego, unfortunately I agree. But I still wouldn't give his ego 10 million a year. We should go the bargain route. Even Lamar Odom won't get more than 7-8 million per year.

How will you feel if the raps give marion 30 million and Odom signs somewhere for 20 over the same term.

We can say it doesn't really matter. But this team is screwed with a couple of really bad contracts, and we've got to say the cap space for further improvement.
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