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Old 03-02-2009, 04:16 PM   #16
SESSEL15
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Not a lot of players, especially bigs, who have been getting consistent starter minutes have a significant improvement in their 6th season.

If you don't believe me? Take a look at Tim Duncan's numbers: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tim_du...eer_stats.html

He wasn't making significant improvements year by year, but he was great because of his incredible consistency. It's what people call "boring" but it's something they can count on every season year after year.

Ok, so lets look at it another way instead of statistics. He hasn't added anything to his arsenal. He still has not developed a back to the basket game, he's still constantly missing right handed lay-ins, his interior defence is the same as it was. He is still pretty much the same player he was 2 years ago.
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Old 03-02-2009, 04:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by SESSEL15
Ok, so lets look at it another way instead of statistics. He hasn't added anything to his arsenal. He still has not developed a back to the basket game, he's still constantly missing right handed lay-ins, his interior defence is the same as it was. He is still pretty much the same player he was 2 years ago.
Not that i'm putting Bosh in this category, but just for arguments sake. What has Lebron James added to his arsenal over the last 2 seasons?
His 07-08 stats were 30 ppg, 7.9rpg, 7.2apg, 1.8spg, 1.1bpg
His 08-09 stats are 28.3ppg, 7.3rpg, 7.1apg, 1.7spg, 1.2bpg

All stellar numbers of course, but virtually the same (actually a bit less this season). He still has a shaky and inconsistent jumper, he still lacks variety in his perimeter moves, his man defense is still off and on, but do you hear Cavs fans compaining? For the most part no. Why? Because sure we'd like to see this or that year by year improvement, but when you have something that's solid and consistent, sometimes you have to be able to live with the faults because the benefits outweigh them.
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Old 03-02-2009, 06:54 PM   #18
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Not that i'm putting Bosh in this category, but just for arguments sake. What has Lebron James added to his arsenal over the last 2 seasons?
His 07-08 stats were 30 ppg, 7.9rpg, 7.2apg, 1.8spg, 1.1bpg
His 08-09 stats are 28.3ppg, 7.3rpg, 7.1apg, 1.7spg, 1.2bpg

All stellar numbers of course, but virtually the same (actually a bit less this season). He still has a shaky and inconsistent jumper, he still lacks variety in his perimeter moves, his man defense is still off and on, but do you hear Cavs fans compaining? For the most part no. Why? Because sure we'd like to see this or that year by year improvement, but when you have something that's solid and consistent, sometimes you have to be able to live with the faults because the benefits outweigh them.

I tried to stay away from stats because they don't tell the whole story due to situation (Lebron has sat plenty of 4th quarters this year for example). I don't think that Bosh and Lebron is a fair comparison anyways. I get what you're saying though. I still think that Bosh hasn't refined his skills enough and hasn't improved in many areas (look back at my previous post). And I'm definately not complaining about this guy, I'm making an observation. And to be honest, what do Cleveland fans really have to complain about anyways dude.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
Not that i'm putting Bosh in this category, but just for arguments sake. What has Lebron James added to his arsenal over the last 2 seasons?
His 07-08 stats were 30 ppg, 7.9rpg, 7.2apg, 1.8spg, 1.1bpg
His 08-09 stats are 28.3ppg, 7.3rpg, 7.1apg, 1.7spg, 1.2bpg

All stellar numbers of course, but virtually the same (actually a bit less this season). He still has a shaky and inconsistent jumper, he still lacks variety in his perimeter moves, his man defense is still off and on, but do you hear Cavs fans compaining? For the most part no. Why? Because sure we'd like to see this or that year by year improvement, but when you have something that's solid and consistent, sometimes you have to be able to live with the faults because the benefits outweigh them.

I think maybe another 2-3 ppg and another rpg isn't too much to ask. He was playing at the level we all thought he would at the beginning of the season and really carrying the team. I don't know what happened since Smitch was fired.. but we were winning a lot more earlier on when Bosh was putting up those monster stats. Is playing in the Olympics the reason? He always seems so worn out and tired.. he lacked that flare and intensity he had at the beginning of the year but seemed to regain it a little last night.
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by Toni
I think maybe another 2-3 ppg and another rpg isn't too much to ask. He was playing at the level we all thought he would at the beginning of the season and really carrying the team. I don't know what happened since Smitch was fired.. but we were winning a lot more earlier on when Bosh was putting up those monster stats. Is playing in the Olympics the reason? He always seems so worn out and tired.. he lacked that flare and intensity he had at the beginning of the year but seemed to regain it a little last night.

Well, from the article:

" "I started off at a high level and I kind of maintained it, then I guess I hit a wall," he said, "didn't know what was going on. Then I got it back a little bit, then I got injured and now I'm here."

The dip, which Bosh now chalks up to the cumulative fatigue of three years with the American Olympic team, and which can also be attributed to the load he had to carry on the underachieving Raptors, was mystifying to him.

"It was unexpected because I didn't know what was going on," he said. "I was just playing and for some reason my shot wasn't going. It just felt like some days my feet were stuck in the mud.""
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Old 03-02-2009, 07:55 PM   #21
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

Good now that he has realized that the Olympics is is taking a toll STOP ****ING PLAYING FOR TEAM USA!!!
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:55 PM   #22
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Good now that he has realized that the Olympics is is taking a toll STOP ****ING PLAYING FOR TEAM USA!!!

He wasn't playing huge minutes on that team. Now why hasn't playing for the US slowed down the other players on that team?
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Old 03-02-2009, 08:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by SESSEL15
He wasn't playing huge minutes on that team. Now why hasn't playing for the US slowed down the other players on that team?
Very good question actually. And especially D-Wade who literally carries his team on his back night in and night out in addition to the major role he played on team USA. I don't know if it's conditioning or what. Or maybe it's just the injuries that have slowed him down, I don't really know. Maybe his body just can't take the grind as well as some other can.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:03 PM   #24
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Very good question actually. And especially D-Wade who literally carries his team on his back night in and night out in addition to the major role he played on team USA. I don't know if it's conditioning or what. Or maybe it's just the injuries that have slowed him down, I don't really know. Maybe his body just can't take the grind as well as some other can.

Excuses maybe? The dude is 24, if he was 30 or something I'd say ok, playing all year long could hold him back a little. Maybe it is conditioning
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

Maybe and more likely it's his body type. Bosh is a slender body type that get's fatigued faster and wore down quicker .
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by SESSEL15
Excuses maybe? The dude is 24, if he was 30 or something I'd say ok, playing all year long could hold him back a little. Maybe it is conditioning

Conditioning shouldn't be an issue this deep into the season. But maybe missing those 5 games really took a toll on him.
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Old 03-02-2009, 09:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Maybe and more likely it's his body type. Bosh is a slender body type that get's fatigued faster and wore down quicker .

Good thought.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

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Originally Posted by SESSEL15
Good thought.


From SMith's blog this morning:

"Here’s a hypothetical

Let’s say you’re 24 years old and you’ve been in the NBA for six years.

In that time, you’ve consistently averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds, been chosen to four all-star teams (three times by the coaches) and been a pretty big role player on an Olympic gold medal team many think is the second-best team ever put together.

Now, in those six years you have:

Played for three different head coaches.

Played for two different general managers.

You have seen 48 players come and go in that period, and that doesn’t include your current 12 teammates, at least a few of whom will be gone when the next training camp comes along. So, it’s 60 guys who’ve worn the same uniform as you in almost six season, a startling roster turnover by anyone’s standards.

In those years, of those 60 players, precisely two have been named even the NBA player of the week once and only one has been in the top three of any significant year-end award.

You’ve re-signed once with your current team and saw its win totals diminish in each of the past three seasons.

Tell me, in all honesty, would you stay? "
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Old 03-04-2009, 12:29 PM   #29
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininThrees
From SMith's blog this morning:

"Here’s a hypothetical

Let’s say you’re 24 years old and you’ve been in the NBA for six years.

In that time, you’ve consistently averaged 20 points and 10 rebounds, been chosen to four all-star teams (three times by the coaches) and been a pretty big role player on an Olympic gold medal team many think is the second-best team ever put together.

Now, in those six years you have:

Played for three different head coaches.

Played for two different general managers.

You have seen 48 players come and go in that period, and that doesn’t include your current 12 teammates, at least a few of whom will be gone when the next training camp comes along. So, it’s 60 guys who’ve worn the same uniform as you in almost six season, a startling roster turnover by anyone’s standards.

In those years, of those 60 players, precisely two have been named even the NBA player of the week once and only one has been in the top three of any significant year-end award.

You’ve re-signed once with your current team and saw its win totals diminish in each of the past three seasons.

Tell me, in all honesty, would you stay? "

Absolutely not. That's why we need to get something for him before it's too late. Unless he resigns prior to the trade deadline next season.
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Old 03-04-2009, 02:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: Raptors' 'trying' year leaves Bosh frustrated

I don't know if people would agree with me or this or not, but I think one of the main problems of this organization for the last several years is that they lack any sort of direction. What system does Toronto want to implement? What kind of players do they want on their team? Talent level is usually the most positively correlated with success, but this team has no identity, and hasn't had one for a while (possibly due to the net flux of players coming in and out).

Its like this franchise is stuck in the mud.
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