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Old 03-02-2009, 06:58 PM   #16
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by antonaki1
I was actually at that game and gotta say there was one offensive charge with the ball that Shaq visciously demolished the Rap defender in his path and threw down one nasty dunk. Even the crowd was laughing and stunned that it wasn't called. It really was a badly refereed homer based night. Every Rap was in foul trouble yet the Sun's got away with assault. The NBA seems to often favour the home team but this game was really extreme!

Why does there seem to be all this favouritism when it comes to star players and style of play? Every player should be called equally and they should have textbook examples of what to call and what shouldn't be called. Swinging the elbows like Shaq does every play? Needs to be called EVERY time because someone will get seriously hurt with those tree trunks. In hockey the minute you use your stick to obstruct somebody anyway it's a penalty. Same kind of mentality should be used to referee the NBA. I still don't understand why they always say the block/charge call is so hard to make. You look at the feet and where the body is positioned, and make a call if the body is not straight and the feet are moving. Doesn't seem too difficult.. although the game being as fast as it is, it would be hard for a referee to make that call instantly I guess. Anyways I digress, what do you all think? Is the NBA rulebook related to refereeing very vague about it's description of 3 second violations and elbow throwing etc? Why is this even being talked about in the first place?
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

I'm at a bit of a loss on what to say here. Have you guys followed Shaq's career on the court? He has been getting screwed on continuation non call fouls his entire career. The hits that Shaq has taken dow lo throughout his career without fouls getting called has been a well documented and a talked about problem for years. He is so big and so strong that when he gets hit going up he brushes guys off like it never happend and refs don't call it. Most of those hits he takes on his arms would alter 90% of other PF/C's shots and be called as a result.

You see SG's, SF's, and PF's drive to the net and get barely touched but get the call all the time. If you are guarding in the post and you lean your arms forward, you will get called if they are not stright up. NONE of these fouls get called on Shaq because he is too strong and it never changes his shots.
You are seeing this more and more with Dwight Howard and have seen this with Yao Ming as well.

So the refs let some of the charges and elbows he throws go by. Big deal. the reality is he has been getting screwed on calls his whole career because of his sheer size and power.

I'm not Shaq's biggest fan, but I gotta call it like I see it.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by Molson
I'm at a bit of a loss on what to say here. Have you guys followed Shaq's career on the court? He has been getting screwed on continuation non call fouls his entire career. The hits that Shaq has taken dow lo throughout his career without fouls getting called has been a well documented and a talked about problem for years. He is so big and so strong that when he gets hit going up he brushes guys off like it never happend and refs don't call it. Most of those hits he takes on his arms would alter 90% of other PF/C's shots and be called as a result.

You see SG's, SF's, and PF's drive to the net and get barely touched but get the call all the time. If you are guarding in the post and you lean your arms forward, you will get called if they are not stright up. NONE of these fouls get called on Shaq because he is too strong and it never changes his shots.
You are seeing this more and more with Dwight Howard and have seen this with Yao Ming as well.

So the refs let some of the charges and elbows he throws go by. Big deal. the reality is he has been getting screwed on calls his whole career because of his sheer size and power.

I'm not Shaq's biggest fan, but I gotta call it like I see it.

Yeah he gets hit a lot.. but I would hate to be the guy guarding him and getting that flying elbow to my face..
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:23 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by Toni
Yeah he gets hit a lot.. but I would hate to be the guy guarding him and getting that flying elbow to my face..

And maybe if people weren't hanging off of him and fouling him all the time they wouldn't be catching elbows in the mouth?

Fact is, Shaq is a top three centre of all time and so Bosh needs to shut his damn mouth.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by DJMason
And maybe if people weren't hanging off of him and fouling him all the time they wouldn't be catching elbows in the mouth?

Fact is, Shaq is a top three centre of all time and so Bosh needs to shut his damn mouth.

As a basketball player, what are you supposed to do. The rule is there in first place to keep guy from camping. No one can stop Shaq once he's under the rim. That's the reason for the rule. If it's not being enforced, what are you supposed to do? Imagine yourself guarding a guy for 30+ mins and doing your best, but the refs don't make the call. It's gotta be frustrating. Bosh was frustrated. It doesn't matter who it is, how many rings he has, how many championships, if a player is blatantly bending the rules and the refs allow it, what can you do? What would you do as a basketball player in Bosh's shoes?
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:16 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by DJMason
And maybe if people weren't hanging off of him and fouling him all the time they wouldn't be catching elbows in the mouth?

Fact is, Shaq is a top three centre of all time and so Bosh needs to shut his damn mouth.

LOL

You hate Bosh so much DJ.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:24 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by Raps4Life
As a basketball player, what are you supposed to do. The rule is there in first place to keep guy from camping. No one can stop Shaq once he's under the rim. That's the reason for the rule. If it's not being enforced, what are you supposed to do? Imagine yourself guarding a guy for 30+ mins and doing your best, but the refs don't make the call. It's gotta be frustrating. Bosh was frustrated. It doesn't matter who it is, how many rings he has, how many championships, if a player is blatantly bending the rules and the refs allow it, what can you do? What would you do as a basketball player in Bosh's shoes?

Ok, so 3 in the key gets called maybe once a game on ANY given night regardless of whether or not Shaq-Diesel is playing. I can guaranty you that Bosh gets away with it just as much as anyone else (assuming that he actually is playing in the paint which admittedly isn't as often as it should be). 3 in the key is the equivalent of carrying the ball or holding in football: if you were to call it every time the game would screech to a halt and so refs don't, and they certainly don't for top three centres of all time. At most there would have been 2-3 calls on Shaq which would have made the Raps lose by what 14 instead of 20?

Everybody knows that all-stars and HoF'ers get preferential treatment in the NBA. Iverson 5 years ago or Bron now anyone? I don't HATE Bosh but I am sick and tired of him, and the rest of this team for that matter, coming up with excuses everytime we lose, which is so frequent that maybe just MAYBE its not the refs, or injuries, or bad planetary alignment on a given night but our team that has the problem. And that problem is and has been since the begining of this franchise an inability to protect the paint.
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Old 03-03-2009, 05:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by DJMason
Everybody knows that all-stars and HoF'ers get preferential treatment in the NBA. Iverson 5 years ago or Bron now anyone? I don't HATE Bosh but I am sick and tired of him, and the rest of this team for that matter, coming up with excuses everytime we lose, which is so frequent that maybe just MAYBE its not the refs, or injuries, or bad planetary alignment on a given night but our team that has the problem. And that problem is and has been since the begining of this franchise an inability to protect the paint.

I agree. The excuses need to stop. The talking needs to stop. This team has a great deal of talent (Bargnani, Bosh, Marion, Calderon) and there's no reason for them not to be more competitive than they are. Time to start walking the walk.
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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and that problem is and has been since the begining of this franchise an inability to protect the paint.
That's why we brought in guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Corliss Williamson, etc... Not as much "talent" as a Bargnani, but players who received lesser contracts and provided the role of tough enforcer, rebounder and paint defender. The problem is that when BC got here, he was quick to hop on the "run and gun" bandwagon when in reality run and gun has = run and done in the playoffs. You don't need two offensive bigs who are gonna be gunning for 20+ a night, and in fact, it's not a smart way to construct a team. You can have one, and then you get an athletic scoring wing who can create for himself and one (or maybe two) tough interior bigs (in addition to Bosh) who can pull down rebounds, and block shots. In terms of an offensive game, all he (or they) need to be able to do is maybe a little hook shot and/or pound the glass for putbacks. Nothing more nothing less.
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:53 PM   #25
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by bokes15
That's why we brought in guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Corliss Williamson, etc... Not as much "talent" as a Bargnani, but players who received lesser contracts and provided the role of tough enforcer, rebounder and paint defender. The problem is that when BC got here, he was quick to hop on the "run and gun" bandwagon when in reality run and gun has = run and done in the playoffs. You don't need two offensive bigs who are gonna be gunning for 20+ a night, and in fact, it's not a smart way to construct a team. You can have one, and then you get an athletic scoring wing who can create for himself and one (or maybe two) tough interior bigs (in addition to Bosh) who can pull down rebounds, and block shots. In terms of an offensive game, all he (or they) need to be able to do is maybe a little hook shot and/or pound the glass for putbacks. Nothing more nothing less.

We need a Joel Pryzbilla type player to come off the bench for us. I think that's a perfect example of the type of player we need. Rebound and block shots and a layup/dunk every now and then.
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Old 03-03-2009, 07:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by bokes15
That's why we brought in guys like Charles Oakley, Kevin Willis, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Corliss Williamson, etc... Not as much "talent" as a Bargnani, but players who received lesser contracts and provided the role of tough enforcer, rebounder and paint defender. The problem is that when BC got here, he was quick to hop on the "run and gun" bandwagon when in reality run and gun has = run and done in the playoffs. You don't need two offensive bigs who are gonna be gunning for 20+ a night, and in fact, it's not a smart way to construct a team. You can have one, and then you get an athletic scoring wing who can create for himself and one (or maybe two) tough interior bigs (in addition to Bosh) who can pull down rebounds, and block shots. In terms of an offensive game, all he (or they) need to be able to do is maybe a little hook shot and/or pound the glass for putbacks. Nothing more nothing less.

Agree 100%. As I said in the thread re: Bargnani's best position, having two bigs give you 20+ points each is great, unless they give up 40 to one big on the other team (i.e. Shaq, Howard etc.) at which point their scoring is completely negated.
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Old 03-03-2009, 08:14 PM   #27
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by DJMason
Agree 100%. As I said in the thread re: Bargnani's best position, having two bigs give you 20+ points each is great, unless they give up 40 to one big on the other team (i.e. Shaq, Howard etc.) at which point their scoring is completely negated.
My thing is, unless one of those bigs who scores 20+ can also facilitate well to his teammates, it's not really beneficial to the team. If those are our two best players and neither is good at ball distribution, then it means in late game situations, our option A and B are both big men.
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Old 03-03-2009, 09:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by DJMason
Ok, so 3 in the key gets called maybe once a game on ANY given night regardless of whether or not Shaq-Diesel is playing. I can guaranty you that Bosh gets away with it just as much as anyone else (assuming that he actually is playing in the paint which admittedly isn't as often as it should be). 3 in the key is the equivalent of carrying the ball or holding in football: if you were to call it every time the game would screech to a halt and so refs don't, and they certainly don't for top three centres of all time. At most there would have been 2-3 calls on Shaq which would have made the Raps lose by what 14 instead of 20?

Everybody knows that all-stars and HoF'ers get preferential treatment in the NBA. Iverson 5 years ago or Bron now anyone? I don't HATE Bosh but I am sick and tired of him, and the rest of this team for that matter, coming up with excuses everytime we lose, which is so frequent that maybe just MAYBE its not the refs, or injuries, or bad planetary alignment on a given night but our team that has the problem. And that problem is and has been since the begining of this franchise an inability to protect the paint.


Still didn't answer my question. What as a basketball player do you do when a 325 lb beast is allowed to stand in the key. If I'm playing ball and someone bigger than me backs me down and has his way, it sucks, but I accept a better player beat me. However, if he's allowed to camp and the refs aren't calling it, I'm pissed. I don't stand a chance. Just give me a chance to defend him within the rules. That's the exasperation Bosh felt. Yeah, it seemed like whining, but if a reporter asks you right after a game, how hard was it to guard Shaq? I would say the same thing as Bosh said.
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Old 03-04-2009, 09:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

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Originally Posted by Raps4Life
Still didn't answer my question. What as a basketball player do you do when a 325 lb beast is allowed to stand in the key. If I'm playing ball and someone bigger than me backs me down and has his way, it sucks, but I accept a better player beat me. However, if he's allowed to camp and the refs aren't calling it, I'm pissed. I don't stand a chance. Just give me a chance to defend him within the rules. That's the exasperation Bosh felt. Yeah, it seemed like whining, but if a reporter asks you right after a game, how hard was it to guard Shaq? I would say the same thing as Bosh said.

The way you describe it, anyone reading would think that Shaq was allowed all the time to sit in the key as long as he likes 4, 5 ,6 seconds without repercussion.

Watch him play. 90-95% of the time he is in the key and then out within 3 seconds and then back in again. So they missed a few calls by a fraction of a second. What's the issue? Refs miss calls on things all the time.
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Old 03-04-2009, 10:24 AM   #30
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Default Re: Shaq responds to Bosh

There is some truth in both of what Bosh and O'Neal say.

O'Neal is able to park himself in the lane. I don't think I have ever seen him called for 3 seconds. And Bosh is a bit weak and seems sometimes to quit.
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