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Old 03-03-2009, 12:19 AM   #16
Toni
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by Skywalker
Bargnani is the one who needs to be trade

Bosh? We should be doing everything we can to keep him. A tough C could really benefit the team with Bosh. But with Bargnani? We'll never be successful. The longer this guy is here the longer we will continue to lose. And he's gonna be here for a while. We the fans, are stuck watching losers for a long while I have a feeling. The Raptors are stuck in a conundrum with Bargnani.

I think management believes he is a franchise player in the making and won't trade him unless they get considerable value in return. Which is good and makes sense I guess. BC is too stubborn and loves Andrea too much to trade him I think. Which is why Bosh I think might get left out of the equation.

Bargnani would have a significant size advantage over any other PF in the league. A 7'0" 250 pound PF with a strong and gritty rebounder would be a very effective frontcourt. I've also noticed an improvement in Bargnani's low post defense. It seems to be getting better (When he's not in foul trouble) as the season goes on. He has had a few 4+ block games this season and his rebounding has gotten a little bit better than past years.

Really though, I couldn't care less if Bosh or Bargnani goes but one needs to. I just think it will be Bosh because of the situation of the team. Also Bargnani will probably make less so it would be better financially for the team as well.
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

Killer B's could work...But yeah, a nice gritty center would be nice next to one of those downey's.

Nothin's gonna wrk if we don;t make a couple changes in the backcourt however, freaking disgusting defence. Oh and new coach, anyone...?
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Old 03-03-2009, 03:22 AM   #18
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by Too_Cool
Killer B's could work...But yeah, a nice gritty center would be nice next to one of those downey's.

Nothin's gonna wrk if we don;t make a couple changes in the backcourt however, freaking disgusting defence. Oh and new coach, anyone...?

I would love to see Eddie Jordan coach this team. He's good with the players and always gets his teams to play solid team defence. He kept the Wizards afloat through all those years of tough and untimely injuries and I found it a little disheartening how he was let go. We should pick him up!
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Old 03-03-2009, 06:33 AM   #19
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

Bargnani is 7", 250 lbs. He can't defend Shaq or Howard right know. But he will keep improving his defence and getting stronger.

He can create HUGE mismatches if he is defended by a center. He needs a quick PF with some shooting who can also abuse the Cs, like Bosh. He needs a tough SF who can rebound, like Marion.

So, why isn't this team working? I really don't know. It is a good team on paper.
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Old 03-03-2009, 11:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by FCardelle
Bargnani is 7", 250 lbs. He can't defend Shaq or Howard right know. But he will keep improving his defence and getting stronger.

He can create HUGE mismatches if he is defended by a center. He needs a quick PF with some shooting who can also abuse the Cs, like Bosh. He needs a tough SF who can rebound, like Marion.

So, why isn't this team working? I really don't know. It is a good team on paper.

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Old 03-03-2009, 11:40 AM   #21
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by FCardelle
Bargnani is 7", 250 lbs. He can't defend Shaq or Howard right know. But he will keep improving his defence and getting stronger.

He can create HUGE mismatches if he is defended by a center. He needs a quick PF with some shooting who can also abuse the Cs, like Bosh. He needs a tough SF who can rebound, like Marion.

So, why isn't this team working? I really don't know. It is a good team on paper.

I'm not sure if I agree. We are very weak down low and defensively in general, regardless of how mobile our bigs are. Bargnani has made good strides on defense but he still isn't capable of guarding people his own size. Which is why I think he is a good fit at PF. He is faster and bigger than anybody at that position and he would be able to guard them much easier. We need a bruiser at C that can rebound Bargnani's or Bosh's misses.. like Thabeet .

Calderon's defense and lack of scoring at the SG position really hurts the team as well. Notice whenever Parker scores 20+ points we usually win the game..
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

I wouldn't exactly call Thabeet a banger.

He's huge and he can block shots but he doesn't seem very strong to me.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

I think Bargnani will be a very good centre. He has improved every facet of his game that he needs to improve on to become a good centre.

The mis matches created with Bargnani at centre is heavily favoured to the Raptors side. He's fast and drives the lane very well, not many centres can stop him. His shooting stroke can't be matched by any other centre in the league. His man to man defense is very good, his help defense is improving to the point of almost being good. His biggest weakness is rebounding. But watch him, he's blocking out very very well, Marion's rebounding stats will jump through the roof playing with Andrea.

He was drafted to be a centre, he played centre in Italy and he has the size and the strength to play that position in the NBA. He's not the bruiser everybody wants, but look at the bruising centres in the league that could be available and tell me where the scoring will come from with that player. I know the answer already, Bargnani will be chip that get's us that solid three. Are there not other avenues to persue to get that three? Because we get that three, then you have a hole at the 2 and the 5.

The three is a critical position, for any team. But the advantages of having Andrea at the 5 so heavily favor the Raptors that I can't see us coming out ahead by moving him.

The game against Phoenix, nobody could have stopped Shaq. Howard (D12)is a beast that will dominate for years. These guys are the prototypical centres. But there aren't many of them as history has shown. Quick question, who in your opinion is the next big bruising centre?

Andrea when drafted was a work in progress. Does anybody here think he's hit the ceiling? Does anybody here think he's done improving? Does anybody here really think that covering a hole at the three with a $6.5 contract and creating a hole at the five is beneficial to the Raptors. I know some of you will say yes, but not me. Andrea Bargnani in my opinion will be an All Star at the 5 in no more then two years. Next year being very likely.

Last edited by b4ball : 03-03-2009 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 03-03-2009, 12:59 PM   #24
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

Hopefully we can work Bargnani's value up. He'll be a decent player, maybe even an All-Star once or twice.

But, simply put, him and Bosh together CAN'T WORK. Which one do you want to keep? The obvious answer is Bosh. Bargs will always be Dirk without the passion, consistency and winning mentality (although Bargs might have better athletic ability). Bosh is Bosh. Give Bosh a tough defence/rebounding center next to him, not a soft jump-shooting center. JO was tough defensively, but not that great of a rebounder, and far too focused on his own offense.

This team needs to shed Kapono at all costs, get a veteran backup for Jose, get a good SG who can score and defend (by trading Bargnani), keep Marion, re-sign Rasho as backup C, and get a tough 6'11+ center to put next to Bosh (I'm thinking Kendrick Perkins, except not a crazy idiot). Maybe re-sign Moon too...

So our lineup would look something like:

Tough unskilled center/Rasho/O'Bryant
Bosh/Hump/some scrub
Marion/Graham/Moon
decent young SG/AP/Banks
Jose/vet/Roko

Seriously, keeping Bargnani equals Bosh leaving, Bargnani as franchise equals fail. It's a pickle. The problem is that Bosh and Bargnani are redundant offensively, and both are kind of soft and weak. Except Bosh is much better and consistent.

Last edited by A.M.G. : 03-03-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:10 PM   #25
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Except Bosh is much better and consistent.

And a lot more expensive..
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by Chamberlain
I wouldn't exactly call Thabeet a banger.

He's huge and he can block shots but he doesn't seem very strong to me.

You don't think giving Thabeet 2 years of experience in the NBA that he will be a extremely productive defensive post? He has a huge wingspan and the height, even if he adds another 15-20 pounds over two years, he will be 7'3" and 285. Which is MASSIVE. They compare him to a bigger Marcus Camby with regards to shot blocking and a defensive presence like a Dikembe Mutombo. This is the guy we need!
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:15 PM   #27
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
I think Bargnani will be a very good centre. He has improved every facet of his game that he needs to improve on to become a good centre.

The mis matches created with Bargnani at centre is heavily favoured to the Raptors side. He's fast and drives the lane very well, not many centres can stop him. His shooting stroke can't be matched by any other centre in the league. His man to man defense is very good, his help defense is improving to the point of almost being good. His biggest weakness is rebounding. But watch him, he's blocking out very very well, Marion's rebounding stats will jump through the roof playing with Andrea.

He was drafted to be a centre, he played centre in Italy and he has the size and the strength to play that position in the NBA. He's not the bruiser everybody wants, but look at the bruising centres in the league that could be available and tell me where the scoring will come from with that player. I know the answer already, Bargnani will be chip that get's us that solid three. Are there not other avenues to persue to get that three? Because we get that three, then you have a hole at the 2 and the 5.

The three is a critical position, for any team. But the advantages of having Andrea at the 5 so heavily favor the Raptors that I can't see us coming out ahead by moving him.

The game against Phoenix, nobody could have stopped Shaq. Howard (D12)is a beast that will dominate for years. These guys are the prototypical centres. But there aren't many of them as history has shown. Quick question, who in your opinion is the next big bruising centre?

Andrea when drafted was a work in progress. Does anybody here think he's hit the ceiling? Does anybody here think he's done improving? Does anybody here really think that covering a hole at the three with a $6.5 contract and creating a hole at the five is beneficial to the Raptors. I know some of you will say yes, but not me. Andrea Bargnani in my opinion will be an All Star at the 5 in no more then two years. Next year being very likely.

Very good assessment of Bargnani. The only way he will become an all-star next year is if Bosh is traded. That is not very likely unless Bosh tells Colangelo he's leaving next summer.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:28 PM   #28
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G.
Hopefully we can work Bargnani's value up. He'll be a decent player, maybe even an All-Star once or twice.

But, simply put, him and Bosh together CAN'T WORK. Which one do you want to keep? The obvious answer is Bosh. Bargs will always be Dirk without the passion, consistency and winning mentality (although Bargs might have better athletic ability). Bosh is Bosh. Give Bosh a tough defence/rebounding center next to him, not a soft jump-shooting center. JO was tough defensively, but not that great of a rebounder, and far too focused on his own offense.

This team needs to shed Kapono at all costs, get a veteran backup for Jose, get a good SG who can score and defend (by trading Bargnani), keep Marion, re-sign Rasho as backup C, and get a tough 6'11+ center to put next to Bosh (I'm thinking Kendrick Perkins, except not a crazy idiot). Maybe re-sign Moon too...

So our lineup would look something like:

Tough unskilled center/Rasho/O'Bryant
Bosh/Hump/some scrub
Marion/Graham/Moon
decent young SG/AP/Banks
Jose/vet/Roko

Seriously, keeping Bargnani equals Bosh leaving, Bargnani as franchise equals fail. It's a pickle. The problem is that Bosh and Bargnani are redundant offensively, and both are kind of soft and weak. Except Bosh is much better and consistent.

How does having a bruising centre help Bosh? Bosh needs to have the lane cleared for him to have one of his two offensive moves available. With a bruising centre in the lane Bosh's game is down to one offensive play, shooting.
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Old 03-03-2009, 01:32 PM   #29
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by Toni
Very good assessment of Bargnani. The only way he will become an all-star next year is if Bosh is traded. That is not very likely unless Bosh tells Colangelo he's leaving next summer.

I disagree. The Raptors will be a much better team next year with Bosh Bargnani and Marion up front. Marion provides the rebounds we need. Keep these guys together and add a strong two and we compete in the east.

I'm sometimes mystified at all this talk that one of Bosh or Bargnani has to go. I think Bargnani's game help Bosh. And I think a player like Marion adds that one element that this team needs upfront. Rebounding and second chance opportunitites.
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Old 03-03-2009, 02:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: What is Bargnani's ideal position?

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Originally Posted by b4ball
I disagree. The Raptors will be a much better team next year with Bosh Bargnani and Marion up front. Marion provides the rebounds we need. Keep these guys together and add a strong two and we compete in the east.

I'm sometimes mystified at all this talk that one of Bosh or Bargnani has to go. I think Bargnani's game help Bosh. And I think a player like Marion adds that one element that this team needs upfront. Rebounding and second chance opportunitites.

Interesting viewpoint, most of the posters on here will disagree with you. I'm still on the fence on whether I believe Bosh-Bargnani will work out or not. The rest of the season should be an assessment of how Marion-Bosh-Bargnani will turn out. The lack of back court talent definately has aided in the bashing of Bosh-Bargnani front court. The other thing is, if we can't improve our talent on the wings, we have to trade one of our strengths (Bosh Bargnani) to spread the talent to other positions.

Just a thought but does anyone think Bosh would offer to stay for less money if it meant the team could go out a get a talented wing man?
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