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Old 03-12-2009, 04:47 PM   #31
b4ball
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

I don't like the stat simply because there are others that I think would be more valuable.

I would like to see a stat for fouls drawn / charges taken.
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Old 03-12-2009, 04:50 PM   #32
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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Originally Posted by b4ball
I don't like the stat simply because there are others that I think would be more valuable.

I would like to see a stat for fouls drawn / charges taken.

That would make sense. I think it's going to go as far as taking down shots altered as well as blocks and deflections as well as steals.
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Old 03-12-2009, 05:52 PM   #33
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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Originally Posted by Toni
That's in one game though. I mean looking at the +/- stat throughout a season or a stretch of games, you can probably extrapolate some pretty interesting trends with that data.

Sometimes it's an obvious indicator when someone isn't playing bad, or even playing great.. but obviously it's not a clear indicator of whats going on individually. I'm not really too attached to the stat so I couldn't care less. Just trying to justify it's usefulness.

Fair enough. There is just a really shady area with this statistic.
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Old 03-12-2009, 08:22 PM   #34
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

heres the thing about the +/- stat. Sessel ur rite when u say about players who play 40 mins a game. if its a player who plays in garbage time and in the second or third unit and gets a high +/- rating, then yes the stat is meaningless. BUT for a player like Pops who plays alongside Bosh and Bargnani when one of the 2 is on the bench, that stat is not meaningless any more.
i would like to know how well Bosh or Bargnani plays (because only one is on the court with Pops) when Pops is playing.
some players, like Bosh, can have a weak +/- rating (not necessarily negative maybe borderline) and in those situations it matters more what players alongside them had a higher +/- rating because they attract so much attention on offense. u might even notice in some score sheets that players like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, etc will have a negative +/- stat YET win the game for their team.

i think this is more of a team stat rather than an individual stat. u can have as many points as u want but if the team was -30 while u were playing then theres nothing to say. thats what makes Pops special. because he doesnt score. hes all defense and hustle.
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Old 03-12-2009, 10:51 PM   #35
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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I seriously doubt we're going to see much of Mr. O'Bryant from here on out.

We should though, it's not like we're playing for anything except a high draft pick. Let him get out there and see what he can do there's nothing to lose.
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Old 03-13-2009, 03:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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We should though, it's not like we're playing for anything except a high draft pick. Let him get out there and see what he can do there's nothing to lose.

The times I have seen him play I was not very impressed. But I guess he needs more minutes to develop more consistency. Triano is coaching for his job right now, which is why Bosh and Jose are still playing 40mpg. Until we are eliminated from playoff contention altogether we won't see much of O'Bryant.
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Old 03-15-2009, 03:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

Gotta Have My Pops!!!
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Old 03-15-2009, 04:14 PM   #38
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

Lock this guy up cheap for the next 7 years.

What a joy to watch. So much energy and passion. The second coming of JYD.
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Old 03-16-2009, 06:05 PM   #39
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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Lock this guy up cheap for the next 7 years.

What a joy to watch. So much energy and passion. The second coming of JYD.


I was watching the replay of game in an hour of this guy and I know the game is shortened for the hour but he took only 1 play off it just seemed like even if he knew he wasn't going to get the rebound or the block or even the steal he was always right there to almost get it & his defence is pestering and he is very light on his feet. Very good start to his career as a raptor!
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Old 03-17-2009, 09:45 AM   #40
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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I was watching the replay of game in an hour of this guy and I know the game is shortened for the hour but he took only 1 play off it just seemed like even if he knew he wasn't going to get the rebound or the block or even the steal he was always right there to almost get it & his defence is pestering and he is very light on his feet. Very good start to his career as a raptor!

I think this guy might get locked up into a Humphries type contract...
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:18 AM   #41
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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I think this guy might get locked up into a Humphries type contract...

Don't you think 3M/3Y is a little much for an unproven NBA talent?

I think we can get him for around 1.5-2M /3Y.

Lot's of teams will be bidding for him this summer though with their MLEs.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:28 AM   #42
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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Originally Posted by Toni
Don't you think 3M/3Y is a little much for an unproven NBA talent?

I think we can get him for around 1.5-2M /3Y.

Lot's of teams will be bidding for him this summer though with their MLEs.


He definitely is not worth the MLE but 2-3m sounds like the right range for a hustle/energy player of your bench. Now if we could just get rid of Kapono/Banks my prayers would be answered.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko044
heres the thing about the +/- stat. Sessel ur rite when u say about players who play 40 mins a game. if its a player who plays in garbage time and in the second or third unit and gets a high +/- rating, then yes the stat is meaningless. BUT for a player like Pops who plays alongside Bosh and Bargnani when one of the 2 is on the bench, that stat is not meaningless any more.
i would like to know how well Bosh or Bargnani plays (because only one is on the court with Pops) when Pops is playing.
some players, like Bosh, can have a weak +/- rating (not necessarily negative maybe borderline) and in those situations it matters more what players alongside them had a higher +/- rating because they attract so much attention on offense. u might even notice in some score sheets that players like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Carmelo, etc will have a negative +/- stat YET win the game for their team.

i think this is more of a team stat rather than an individual stat. u can have as many points as u want but if the team was -30 while u were playing then theres nothing to say. thats what makes Pops special. because he doesnt score. hes all defense and hustle.

The bolded is right, and to me +/- tells me little about a player's abilities as a defender. What about the other 3 guys on the court? Should Pops/Bosh/Bargnani suffer in their defensive rating (via +/-) because none of our wings or guards have the ability to guard their man one-on-one? This year, wing players have been consistently having career nights vs the Raps defense, and them scoring has little to with how well the Bigs are defending. Sure they can step in and try and help... but there's only so much they can do.
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Old 03-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #44
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
I don't like the stat simply because there are others that I think would be more valuable.

I would like to see a stat for fouls drawn / charges taken.

100% certain this is a stat coaches and teams keep.
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Old 03-17-2009, 11:10 AM   #45
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Default Re: Raptors to sign Pape Sow.... correction, Pops Mensah-Bonsu

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Originally Posted by RaininThrees
100% certain this is a stat coaches and teams keep.

How come the NBA doesn't keep track and publish it for the public to see?
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