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Old 03-09-2009, 04:47 PM   #16
DJMason
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Originally Posted by Prodigy
Bosh isn't a franchise player but he's probably going to be the closest we'll have for a while. Probably not the best idea to trade him in the off season for unequal talent and/or bad contracts. No team is going to give us much young talent or enough picks for him anyhow. Even the draft doesn't look very promising. I mean there's Harden to solve our wing problems but what's his ceiling really? This is all assuming that we get super lucky and even land him in the first place. We have no forseeable means of trading with another team to improve our draft position.


Here's the million dollar question. If the Raptors for some impossible chance DO get the first pick of the draft who would you guys want them to take? There has always been the endless discussion of picking talent versus picking need. Would you guys want the best player in the draft class in Mr. Blake Griffen who happens to (again like Bargnani and O'Neal) play the same position as Bosh or take Harden to solve our wing problems? Keeping in mind that acquiring Griffen could net us a good trade packaged with some of our bad contracts for an allstar calibre wing player. (Vince Carter anyone? I kid I kid.)

My thing is, if we're going to have someone who isn't a franchise player then I'd prefer a) Someone who can at least create/make his own shot down the stretch and b) Someone who won't be paid max dollars as I've said too many times to count anymore. Oh and another reason to trade him is that its better to trade him ASAP and get the highest possible value for him (before he would become a bonafide rental player) and certainly better to trade him before he walks in 2010 and we get nothing.

As for the draft, I'm tired of drafting people with potentially high ceilings and waiting forever to get something out of them. I take Harden with the first pick as he has both talent AND fills a need. He could easily give us 20 ppg once he comes into his own, which is precisely what we need. The only reason we would have to draft Griffen is if we do trade Bosh before the deadline for a starting wing who can create/make his own shot and filler. We already have a glut at the 4 that isn't working and Griffen would only make that problem worse.
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Old 03-09-2009, 05:35 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Originally Posted by DJMason
My thing is, if we're going to have someone who isn't a franchise player then I'd prefer a) Someone who can at least create/make his own shot down the stretch and b) Someone who won't be paid max dollars as I've said too many times to count anymore. Oh and another reason to trade him is that its better to trade him ASAP and get the highest possible value for him (before he would become a bonafide rental player) and certainly better to trade him before he walks in 2010 and we get nothing.

As for the draft, I'm tired of drafting people with potentially high ceilings and waiting forever to get something out of them. I take Harden with the first pick as he has both talent AND fills a need. He could easily give us 20 ppg once he comes into his own, which is precisely what we need. The only reason we would have to draft Griffen is if we do trade Bosh before the deadline for a starting wing who can create/make his own shot and filler. We already have a glut at the 4 that isn't working and Griffen would only make that problem worse.

You would take Harden over Griffin? The guy can rebound like Boozer and throw it down with the best of them. He's the toughness everybody is saying we lack in the post. Thabeet is another good post option that needs to be considered along with Griffin. He has a lot of defensive potential that could help this team and eithe rof the two players mentioned earlier would make Bosh or Bargnani expendible for a wingman.

Harden would be nice though, we need to find a way to get into the top 3 or make a trade for him afterwards. I really don't think we're going to get that lucky in the lottery again.

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Old 03-09-2009, 05:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Trade Toni for a lottery pick.

That's good value! Thanks bro!
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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You would take Harden over Griffin? The guy is supposed to be the next Boozer. He's the toughness everybody is saying we lack in the post (Although Undersized). Before the two mentioned above I would probably take Thabeet. He should be without a doubt the #1 pick in the draft IMO. He has a lot of defensive potential.

Harden would be nice though, we need to find a way to get into the top 3 or make a trade for him afterwards. I really don't think we're going to get that lucky in the lottery again.

I take Harden mainly because the wing position is BY FAR our biggest reason, and we can acquire established interior defense via a Bosh or Bargnani trade for a tough big and filler (Bierdrins being my personal favourite).

As for Thabeet, I can't help but feel like he's going to end up injury prone ala Oden with his height on such a thin frame.

Ultimately tough, I'm just tired of drafting bigs.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Originally Posted by Toni
You would take Harden over Griffin? The guy is supposed to be the next Boozer. He's the toughness everybody is saying we lack in the post (Although Undersized). Before the two mentioned above I would probably take Thabeet. He should be without a doubt the #1 pick in the draft IMO. He has a lot of defensive potential.

Harden would be nice though, we need to find a way to get into the top 3 or make a trade for him afterwards. I really don't think we're going to get that lucky in the lottery again.

Why would we want the next Boozer when we have Bosh though? I haven't watched that many Oklahoma games but it's not like Boozer protects the paint either. As for taking Thabeet, what do we in turn do with Bargnani then? Try to shop him for a wing?

Anyhow, if we could manage to get a top 3 pick and somehow get Harden I would be very satisfied. Otherwise, we may as well look to next year's draft class and/or blow the team up.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Originally Posted by DJMason
I take Harden mainly because the wing position is BY FAR our biggest reason, and we can acquire established interior defense via a Bosh or Bargnani trade for a tough big and filler (Bierdrins being my personal favourite).

As for Thabeet, I can't help but feel like he's going to end up injury prone ala Oden with his height on such a thin frame.

Ultimately tough, I'm just tired of drafting bigs.

lol yeah good point.. time to switch it up a lil eh DJ? When was the last time we drafted a wing player? Graham in 2005?

Since 2004 we drafted Araujo, Villanueva, Bargnani and Jawai. No wonder we are having problems at the guard position..
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Pretty Bold statement, I don't know if I fully agree with that, but he has been extremely lousy in this season down the stretch.

Here is the question I put out there if a healthy Amare or Duncan or Al Jefferson or Dirk or Elton Brand were our starting power forward would we have a better record than we have right now? I say yes we would! I think we would be a .500 team atleast.
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Old 03-09-2009, 06:33 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Here is the question I put out there if a healthy Amare or Duncan or Al Jefferson or Dirk or Elton Brand were our starting power forward would we have a better record than we have right now? I say yes we would! I think we would be a .500 team atleast.

We would also have a .500 record if Bosh had some help from his guards. Calderon has been playing terrible lately and Parker hasn't been doing anything for us this year. Once we get an upgrade at that position we will start winning more games.

If we can't get Harden, and I'm pretty sure we won't be able to, I would love for our team to snag Jamal Crawford if he opts out. He is a 20ppg SG and is a very hard worker that plays with a lot of heart. He has a knack for hitting big shots and can also create his own shot. I think that's the kind of player we really need to help our 4th quarter letdowns.
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Old 03-09-2009, 08:15 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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We would also have a .500 record if Bosh had some help from his guards. Calderon has been playing terrible lately and Parker hasn't been doing anything for us this year. Once we get an upgrade at that position we will start winning more games.

I'm not sure about it I just think if you want to be a leader or franchise player you have to leave it all out on the floor on both ends of the floor...and simply put Bosh doesn't his defensive stats are almost non-existant and he should have more assists from his passes out of the post as he gets the ball so much...I mean yes he is a good offensive player and a pretty good rebounder but thats all he is I'm sorry to say....(a face up driving version of Zack Randolph) He is definitly one of the best Robins in the League!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
If we can't get Harden, and I'm pretty sure we won't be able to, I would love for our team to snag Jamal Crawford if he opts out. He is a 20ppg SG and is a very hard worker that plays with a lot of heart. He has a knack for hitting big shots and can also create his own shot. I think that's the kind of player we really need to help our 4th quarter letdowns.

Good Idea about Crawford but why would he opt out? I know Nelly said he has to opt out but thats for him & his agent to decide, & we arent going to pay him much...We can use our Exception money on him but thats only like $5,585,000 I'm sure he wants more than that, I don't see us getting him.

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Old 03-09-2009, 08:27 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Originally Posted by Toni
lol yeah good point.. time to switch it up a lil eh DJ? When was the last time we drafted a wing player? Graham in 2005?

Since 2004 we drafted Araujo, Villanueva, Bargnani and Jawai. No wonder we are having problems at the guard position..


And Graham was a 2nd rounder with Villanueva being our first. I honestly cannot tell you the last time we drafted a wing in the first round since we had Carter for all those years and looked for bigs the whole time.

As for Crawford, if we get him we give up Marion although I'm pretty sure that Marion is going to want to bolt with how poor we're playing and the fact that we aren't running as much as he'd hoped. He'd be good though in the absence of a mirraculous Harden pick.

And as much as I dog Bosh, Dirk would be redundant, Brand is injury plagued and overrated and Amare has a one-dimentional offensive game, can't defend worth a lick either and has been playing with a HoF point for the majority of his young carreer so those guys wouldn't make us THAT much better. Duncan as arguably the best PF ever would of course be an upgrade.

What this team needs is balance. Our number 1 and 1A options cannot both be bigs so putting any top 5 PF in Bosh's place would fix nothing.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:09 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

I'll pass on Crawford. I wouldn't be comfortable with him as our starting 2guard.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:16 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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And Graham was a 2nd rounder with Villanueva being our first. I honestly cannot tell you the last time we drafted a wing in the first round since we had Carter for all those years and looked for bigs the whole time.

Your wrong about Graham!! 1st round 16th 1 spot ahead of Granger Doh!

Looking back imagin if we drafted Andrew Bynum & Danny Granger or even Monta Ellis instead of Charlie V & Joey Graham?

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Old 03-09-2009, 09:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Your wrong about Graham!! 1st round 16th 1 spot ahead of Granger Doh!

Looking back imagin if we drafted Andrew Bynum & Danny Granger or even Monta Ellis instead of Charlie V & Joey Graham?

Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure many teams are kicking themselves for not choosing many players in previous drafts. It all depends on how committed they are to getting better and earning a paycheck in the big league. When Graham and Granger were drafted in the mid first round the scouts seen basically the same offensive player, with Graham having the edge defensively because of the program he came out of (OK St.). I for one was buzzing when we picked up Graham, I thought for sure he was going to be a very very good NBA player. He has proven me wrong this far and so has Granger with his work ethic and drive to be the best he can be. It's not always up to the scouts because they can only assess work ethic so much. After draft day it's up to the player to fulfill their potential. Joey hasn't done that yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamberlain
I'll pass on Crawford. I wouldn't be comfortable with him as our starting 2guard.

Why wouldn't you be comfortable with Crawford? He's obviously a huge upgrade at that position for us. He provides 20ppg, confidence, hard work, competitiveness, clutch ability and plays decent defense. If he opts out because Nelson is benching him in Golden State, plus the failing economy, maybe we can sign him for the MLE and keep Marion in the process? Obviously that's wishful thinking but I hope that's a possibility somehow.

I've came to the conclusion that if we're able to select Jennings or Teague in the draft, we should try and push to trade Calderon. We could probably get an above average SG for him somewhere. I think it's time to move on from the Calderon era. What do you all think?
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:01 AM   #29
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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I've came to the conclusion that if we're able to select Jennings or Teague in the draft, we should try and push to trade Calderon. We could probably get an above average SG for him somewhere. I think it's time to move on from the Calderon era. What do you all think?

Calderon Era? He hasn't even been our starting PG for a year yet.
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Old 03-10-2009, 12:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: The Game Against Utah

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Calderon Era? He hasn't even been our starting PG for a year yet.

Whatever you want to call it, it's not working and I don't like it.
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