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Old 03-13-2009, 05:07 PM   #1
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Default What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

It's more than a numbers game when we talk about what we'd be losing if Chris Bosh leaves (regardless of if we get a few pieces in return). We basically lose another face of the franchise. I was watching the CB4 weather report: http://www.youtube.com/cboshtv (funny stuff) and I was just thinking about it, really. We'd lose relevance, respectability, credibility. We'd lose the guy who gives us a solid 20/9 every night, the guy who fields all the questions and takes all the heat when things go badly. A guy who players would actually look forward to come playing with. He's pretty much the only significant draw on our team in many regards, he does a lot for the community, and he's well liked and respected by teammates and opponents alike.

It would set our franchise back to square one and who knows how long it'd take to get another player of that magnitude to come to Toronto (unless we stink it up and luck out in the draft). I for one am not willing to completely throw in the towel and accept being a subpar team with no go-to guy for the next several years. It's just not in my nature.

/rant
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

It's really up to him Bokes. If he really wanted to stay he will sign an extension this summer. If he doesn't we need to get something for him. That's too much of a gamble to potentially have him walk without anything coming back in return.
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Old 03-13-2009, 05:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
It's really up to him Bokes. If he really wanted to stay he will sign an extension this summer. If he doesn't we need to get something for him. That's too much of a gamble to potentially have him walk without anything coming back in return.
I understand it being a gamble, but like I've said before, Bosh seems to be a stand up dude. I'm sure that this summer he will discuss the direction of the franchise, the short and long term goals and things of that nature with BC and at that time indicate to him whether he plans to be on board long term. And if he does, you have to make some major moves to get solid pieces around him to keep this franchise afloat.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:07 PM   #4
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

The duality with Bargnani and his contract are the 2 main problems.
If this summer he will decide to stay in Canada Andrea must go or play at C. (And you can't get the best from him as long as he plays in that position)
If he decides not to stay there are no choices.

Last edited by sipitri : 03-13-2009 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 03-13-2009, 06:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

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Originally Posted by bokes15
I understand it being a gamble, but like I've said before, Bosh seems to be a stand up dude. I'm sure that this summer he will discuss the direction of the franchise, the short and long term goals and things of that nature with BC and at that time indicate to him whether he plans to be on board long term. And if he does, you have to make some major moves to get solid pieces around him to keep this franchise afloat.

The problem is that no matter how supposedly on-board he is this summer, if he doesn't sign a contract then we cannot know that he'll sign back in 2010 since so much can change during a season (of course this season highlighting, bolding and triple underlining that fact). I don't think that him being a stand-up guy really hinges on him signing back with us if we still suck next year since who could blame him for leaving? I seriously do not see the moral imperative for him to stay and therefore him being a stand-up guy or not I doubt changes the situation much. In fact if he wasn't a stand-up guy and would just demand a trade rather than trying to pretend like he's not even thinking about the future it would actually make things much easier.

As to your point about not throwing in the towel on clearly a flawed-to-the-core team but with one supposed "star", that was the attitude that the Leafs had the past couple years with Sundin at the healm and I for one am not for the Raptors emulating that model. I certainly am not for appeasing Bosh only to see him walk as Sundin did and ending up in the worst-case scenario.

This team also completely lacks any personality or identity as is and I'm not so sure how losing Bosh would make it much worse, although I do see your point about him fielding all the questions and really don't know who'd fill that void since Bargs is possibly the most boring interview in the NBA.
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Old 03-13-2009, 07:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
I don't think that him being a stand-up guy really hinges on him signing back with us if we still suck next year since who could blame him for leaving? I seriously do not see the moral imperative for him to stay and therefore him being a stand-up guy or not I doubt changes the situation much. In fact if he wasn't a stand-up guy and would just demand a trade rather than trying to pretend like he's not even thinking about the future it would actually make things much easier.
Because money talks. At worst, Bosh would do a sign and trade because then he'd guarantee himself to get the maximum amount of money he can possibly get, plus the team that gets him knows that they will have him long term rather than just a one year rental so he would get more value. A lot more goes into trading a player of this magnitude than you would have it seem.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

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Originally Posted by bokes15
Because money talks. At worst, Bosh would do a sign and trade because then he'd guarantee himself to get the maximum amount of money he can possibly get, plus the team that gets him knows that they will have him long term rather than just a one year rental so he would get more value. A lot more goes into trading a player of this magnitude than you would have it seem.

Well that's cool.. let's hope he signs that contract then. But if he doesn't, we need to trade him regardless.
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Old 03-13-2009, 08:56 PM   #8
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
Well that's cool.. let's hope he signs that contract then. But if he doesn't, we need to trade him regardless.
It's not really a big "if." Assuming his agent is concerned with putting him in his most adventageous position financially (which I'd say he most likely is considering he shares an agent with Dwayne Wade), he will sign with us regardless. Either to stay or to then be traded to another team.
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Old 03-13-2009, 09:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
It's not really a big "if." Assuming his agent is concerned with putting him in his most adventageous position financially (which I'd say he most likely is considering he shares an agent with Dwayne Wade), he will sign with us regardless. Either to stay or to then be traded to another team.

I sure hope your right bokes.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:21 AM   #10
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Okay, so in you're scenario we sign-and-trade Bosh next year instead of now and end up one year behind in our rebuilding phase. Does anyone really have enough confidence in BC to think that he actually will assemble a winner next year? I mean we can all agree that a) Bosh and Bargs cannot co-exist and b) Bargs is BC's pet project and is unlikely to be traded so given that what are the odds that we do anything other than a first-round exit and keep Bosh?

Again yes I suppose we can sign-and-trade him next year, which is not as much of a guarranty as we'd hope, but then we've just wasted another year on the treadmill.
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Old 03-14-2009, 12:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

The question is, which realistic Bosh trade do you think would get us beyond the 1st round?
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

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Originally Posted by bokes15
The question is, which realistic Bosh trade do you think would get us beyond the 1st round?

I'm not sure anything we do this offseason can get us past the first round next year. Our team is flawed to the core, and therefore trading ANY of those core pieces will probably net us less than we get from them based on our performance this year. I'm only pro a Bosh trade because I think of the three "core" players he is the most likely to get us pieces to start over with (i.e. ideally a high pick or prospect and a young defending big) that we need to start over. If we keep Bosh and trade Bargs instead I seriously doubt we'll get enough back for him to get us over the hump, especially since we'll need a new starting C. That said, if a team falls inlove with him and wants to give up and exciting young 2 or 3 then pull the trigger (although Colangelo probably won't) I'm just not sure that'll happen.

If next season's not going to be a step forward from 06, and I seriously doubt that it will with the 6 steps back we took this year, I'd rather it be an attempt to rebuild and therefore not a total waste. As I said earlier I'm begining to think that we may have entered the realm of the Leafs where we're going to go into every offseason thinking we're just a few moves away from playoff success when in reality we aren't even close. The similarities between us trying to appease Bosh and the Leafs handling of Sundin are also eerily similar, though he's not nearly as old as Sundin.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

whether you consider bosh a franchise player or not, if we lose this guy we are in a mess. He is our identity right now and hoping a lottery will land us a star bigger than him is just based on hope. Build your team around him by getting other stars. Bosh can get other stars to sign with us. Otherwise we go back to those old days when players would rather sit out than play on this team.
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Old 03-14-2009, 11:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

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whether you consider bosh a franchise player or not, if we lose this guy we are in a mess. He is our identity right now and hoping a lottery will land us a star bigger than him is just based on hope. Build your team around him by getting other stars. Bosh can get other stars to sign with us. Otherwise we go back to those old days when players would rather sit out than play on this team.
Exactly. That's what I think people aren't understanding. It's easy to say "well Bargnani can put up 20+ so same difference but less money" but it's more than numbers. It's our entire identity, and we'd really be taking a major step back.

Last edited by bokes15 : 03-15-2009 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 03-15-2009, 05:50 AM   #15
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Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

It wouldn't matter. You might say we'd suck but we suck right now with him having been relatively healthy all year long. We'd just have to rebuild. It's not the end of the world. Can you envision Bosh as the best player of the best team in the league? If not then can you envision gathering 3 more borderline allstar players to put beside him so we can have a better team?

If you said no to either of these questions then we let him go and stop wasting time hoping for something that won't happen. If you're going to wallow in mediocrity you may as well build for the future. We just need to make smart draft picks with the players we get in the future and we'll be okay. Just look at the Blazers. Then again, look at all the other teams that have sucked forever and still haven't gotten better.
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