Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Toronto Raptors Forum

Toronto Raptors Forum Toronto Raptors message board - Toronto Raptors forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-15-2009, 12:00 PM   #16
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
It wouldn't matter. You might say we'd suck but we suck right now with him having been relatively healthy all year long. We'd just have to rebuild. It's not the end of the world. Can you envision Bosh as the best player of the best team in the league? If not then can you envision gathering 3 more borderline allstar players to put beside him so we can have a better team?

If you said no to either of these questions then we let him go and stop wasting time hoping for something that won't happen. If you're going to wallow in mediocrity you may as well build for the future. We just need to make smart draft picks with the players we get in the future and we'll be okay. Just look at the Blazers. Then again, look at all the other teams that have sucked forever and still haven't gotten better.
A. Extremely flawed logic. I can't imagine Dwight Howard as the best player on the best team in the league either. So should the Magic trade him too?

B. Bosh isn't getting us 3 borderline all-stars... At most he'd probably get us 1 borderline all-star and a couple of solid fillers/role players.

The Blazers are a perfect example of lucking out in the draft. Do you really think that most teams can strategize, "hey, it's ok if we suck right now. We're gonna get Brandon Roy and Aldridge, and then the following season we're gonna pick up Greg Oden." Things like that don't happen everyday.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 12:05 PM   #17
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 689
DJMason is considered somewhat coolDJMason is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodigy
It wouldn't matter. You might say we'd suck but we suck right now with him having been relatively healthy all year long. We'd just have to rebuild. It's not the end of the world. Can you envision Bosh as the best player of the best team in the league? If not then can you envision gathering 3 more borderline allstar players to put beside him so we can have a better team?

If you said no to either of these questions then we let him go and stop wasting time hoping for something that won't happen. If you're going to wallow in mediocrity you may as well build for the future. We just need to make smart draft picks with the players we get in the future and we'll be okay. Just look at the Blazers. Then again, look at all the other teams that have sucked forever and still haven't gotten better.

Agree 100%. And to say we'd lose our identity is ridiculous. THIS TEAM HAS NO IDENTITY! That's one of the major problems with this team. Chris Bosh's ho-hum we lost again time to focus on tomorrow isn't exactly what I'd like to call an "identity" for this team or if it is, not one I'd like to have. Again, if we're going to suck, we need to suck with a purpose, that being to rebuild from the ground up.
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 12:35 PM   #18
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
A. Extremely flawed logic. I can't imagine Dwight Howard as the best player on the best team in the league either. So should the Magic trade him too?

B. Bosh isn't getting us 3 borderline all-stars... At most he'd probably get us 1 borderline all-star and a couple of solid fillers/role players.

The Blazers are a perfect example of lucking out in the draft. Do you really think that most teams can strategize, "hey, it's ok if we suck right now. We're gonna get Brandon Roy and Aldridge, and then the following season we're gonna pick up Greg Oden." Things like that don't happen everyday.

Dude.. Howard is a monster. I can imagine him being the best player on the best team in the league for sure. He's leading the defensive player of the year race and nobody can contain him in the post. Give him a few more years and he has the potential to join Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan as legitimate franchise players in the NBA.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 12:38 PM   #19
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Bargnani is absolutely outplaying Bosh down the stretch of this season. I think I really undervalued the potential he has. He's just going to keep getting better. I used to think he had the potential to be an Okur type player, but now I'm starting to think he can become more than that.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 02:06 PM   #20
barkleynash
High School Varsity 6th Man
 
barkleynash's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 799
barkleynash has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Watching today's game was fun to watch. It does seem that Bargs has been outlplaying Bosh to some extent.

If we decide to trade Bosh, I would be very keen on a sign and trade.
Sending Bosh to Denver, With Nene and Kleiza coming back the other way.

Nene would be the inside guy, Bargs would be the 4. I would probably start Kleiza at the 3 and use Marion's money to bring in a athletic, shot creating 2 man.

If Bosh and Kleiza both signed 4 year deals it could really benefit both teams.

Toronton would be

Calderon Ukic, Banks
? Maybe Delfino Parker or one of those as the back-up and a better starter
Kleiza Kapono
Bargs Pops Humps
Nene

I think they could let Graham go. And maybe parker. I would like Delfino as the back-up 2 and bring in a starter with Marion's money. I could handle trading humps as Pops does what he does, just better. Maybe they could bring in Rasho as the back-up center or another 3 man.

thoughts? I am not hating on Bosh here. Just saying if they decide to let him go, this could be an option.
barkleynash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 02:16 PM   #21
kmart
No props needed
 
kmart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,052
kmart has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkleynash
Watching today's game was fun to watch. It does seem that Bargs has been outlplaying Bosh to some extent.

If we decide to trade Bosh, I would be very keen on a sign and trade.
Sending Bosh to Denver, With Nene and Kleiza coming back the other way.

Nene would be the inside guy, Bargs would be the 4. I would probably start Kleiza at the 3 and use Marion's money to bring in a athletic, shot creating 2 man.

If Bosh and Kleiza both signed 4 year deals it could really benefit both teams.

Toronton would be

Calderon Ukic, Banks
? Maybe Delfino Parker or one of those as the back-up and a better starter
Kleiza Kapono
Bargs Pops Humps
Nene

I think they could let Graham go. And maybe parker. I would like Delfino as the back-up 2 and bring in a starter with Marion's money. I could handle trading humps as Pops does what he does, just better. Maybe they could bring in Rasho as the back-up center or another 3 man.

thoughts? I am not hating on Bosh here. Just saying if they decide to let him go, this could be an option.

Dude why would we trade Bosh for Nene and Klezia. A hustle player similar to pops and a shooter similar to Kapono for Bosh? Does that make any sense no draft picks or anything too? Come on we are talking about a franchise player here. We don't want to make the mistake that Memphis did when they got rid of Pau for nothing do we?

If we traded Bosh it would have to be for a excellent young player and role players and maybe a couple first round draft picks.
kmart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 02:38 PM   #22
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 689
DJMason is considered somewhat coolDJMason is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni
Dude.. Howard is a monster. I can imagine him being the best player on the best team in the league for sure. He's leading the defensive player of the year race and nobody can contain him in the post. Give him a few more years and he has the potential to join Kobe, Wade, Lebron and Duncan as legitimate franchise players in the NBA.

I second this point. Orlando, Boston, Cleveland and LA are the 4 best teams in the league and Howard is CLEARLY the best player on the Magic and thus a legit franchise player.

Bargs is definately outplaying Bosh down the stretch and I'm still waiting on my challenge for someone to identify for me just what this team's "identity" is with Bosh, because by all accounts this team has none.
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 03:21 PM   #23
haterofhaters
Fantasy Forum Mod
 
haterofhaters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 4,121
haterofhaters is popular on this boardhaterofhaters is popular on this boardhaterofhaters is popular on this boardhaterofhaters is popular on this boardhaterofhaters is popular on this board
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

I think the kind of "identity" people are talking about is that, if and/or when you guys lose Chris Bosh, nobody in the league is gonna give two ****s about the Toronto Raptors. You'd be hard pressed trying to convince all-star calibur talent to sign with the raps, it'd be extremely difficult to get whatever young talent you receive for him to re-sign with the Raps, and the team would just be a multiple year laughing stock imo.
haterofhaters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 03:56 PM   #24
Dr.Funk
Decent college freshman
 
Dr.Funk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,918
Dr.Funk has decent reputationDr.Funk has decent reputation
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

IS there a different Andrea Bargnani that I don't know about?

Cause the one on the Raptors hasn't been outplaying Chris Bosh.

The only thing that Bargnani has been doing better than Bosh is shot blocking but that is no different than the last 3 years.

And the philly game is the only one where Bargnani was the better player of the two.
Dr.Funk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 04:01 PM   #25
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by barkleynash
Watching today's game was fun to watch. It does seem that Bargs has been outlplaying Bosh to some extent.

If we decide to trade Bosh, I would be very keen on a sign and trade.
Sending Bosh to Denver, With Nene and Kleiza coming back the other way.

Nene would be the inside guy, Bargs would be the 4. I would probably start Kleiza at the 3 and use Marion's money to bring in a athletic, shot creating 2 man.

If Bosh and Kleiza both signed 4 year deals it could really benefit both teams.

Toronton would be

Calderon Ukic, Banks
? Maybe Delfino Parker or one of those as the back-up and a better starter
Kleiza Kapono
Bargs Pops Humps
Nene

I think they could let Graham go. And maybe parker. I would like Delfino as the back-up 2 and bring in a starter with Marion's money. I could handle trading humps as Pops does what he does, just better. Maybe they could bring in Rasho as the back-up center or another 3 man.

thoughts? I am not hating on Bosh here. Just saying if they decide to let him go, this could be an option.

I was just wondering what kind of package we would be able to get for Bosh?

I was looking at the Chicago Bulls and would we be able to get a Deng/Rose/Noah package for him?

I don't think we can get that for him but everyone's saying he's a franchise player and all this.. why does it seem like we can't get a full return if we do decide to trade him? Just questioning Bosh's trade value tells you this guy is not a legit franchise player.

What do all of you think would be a reasonable package for a guy like Bosh, and do you think my proposed deal with the Bulls would have any kind of shot of happening?

I would like to get Nene because he's a monster but Kleiza and his shooting wouldn't be a necessity on this team, I think we can do better.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMa...tradeId=dddh2g
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 04:12 PM   #26
Toni
The Clumsy Waiter
 
Toni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2,495
Toni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat coolToni is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
IS there a different Andrea Bargnani that I don't know about?

Cause the one on the Raptors hasn't been outplaying Chris Bosh.

The only thing that Bargnani has been doing better than Bosh is shot blocking but that is no different than the last 3 years.

And the philly game is the only one where Bargnani was the better player of the two.

Dude have you watched any games for the past 2 months?

Since mid-February, Bargnani has been clearly the best Raptor. He's been putting up 20+ games on great percentages very consistently. It's clear Bosh is frustrated too because his awkward drives are not drawing fouls anymore and his 18 footer isn't dropping. As evidenced by his 6/16 shooting this afternoon and shooting around 37% over his past 3 games.
Toni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 04:49 PM   #27
b4ball
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,146
b4ball has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
IS there a different Andrea Bargnani that I don't know about?

Cause the one on the Raptors hasn't been outplaying Chris Bosh.

The only thing that Bargnani has been doing better than Bosh is shot blocking but that is no different than the last 3 years.

And the philly game is the only one where Bargnani was the better player of the two.

Your best to keep with your two and three word responses, because anything outside of that exposes your complete lack of basketball knowledge.
b4ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 04:51 PM   #28
DJMason
High School JV MVP
 
DJMason's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 689
DJMason is considered somewhat coolDJMason is considered somewhat cool
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Funk
IS there a different Andrea Bargnani that I don't know about?

Cause the one on the Raptors hasn't been outplaying Chris Bosh.

The only thing that Bargnani has been doing better than Bosh is shot blocking but that is no different than the last 3 years.

And the philly game is the only one where Bargnani was the better player of the two.

How about this afternoon for an example? Or pick a number of games in the past 2 months as Toni pointed out. Bosh is visibly frustrated while Bargs continues to play his heart out every game.

As for losing Bosh meaning we can't sign all-star calibur players, if we do trade Bosh it will be in the spirit of rebuilding at which point our goal would not be to sign an allstar as it is now but to re-tool and hopefully find a legit player to build around which Bosh is proving not to be. You're also greatly overestimating the number of people lining up to play with Bosh as the only people who have been in the past few years are injury-prone players (Ford, JO). Again you say no one will give to s***s about the Raptors? They don't now and trading Bosh aint gonna change a damn thing in that regard, but it will at least start us down the path we need to be on which is rebuilding.

And no the Raptors will never get Rose + filler for Bosh. Rose has a legit shot at being a top 5 player in the league franchise star. Bosh does not.
DJMason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 05:04 PM   #29
b4ball
Local High School Star
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,146
b4ball has an OK reputation so far
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

If we loose Chris Bosh, and I'm not for getting rid of him IT DOES NOT MEAN THE END OF THE RAPTORS.

All these fools trying to sell this snake oil want everybody to be scared, when there is nothing to be scared of.

Bosh is a very good player, an All Star because he plays in the eastern conference, an All Star because he sold himself better then anybody else with his You Tube act. You know, the one Shaq made reference too. Yes some responses will come saying he was an All Star before the You Tube act, but would he have repeated without it?

Toronto, despite being in Canada is a much better place to play and live then most other NBA cities. It has a solid fan base, a first class arena, money and a very well respected GM except in Toronto.

And Bargnani is miles and miles ahead of Bosh as far as talent goes. He scores twenty without breaking a sweat, without plays called for him, without all the drama that Bosh feeds off of.

The Raptor are better with both Bosh and Bargnani, a solid two and three and this team could dominate the eastern conference.

But some need to come to grip with Bosh. He's injured a lot, limited with talent and absolutely not a franchise player.

And Toronto and the Raptors would survive without him.

Last edited by b4ball : 03-15-2009 at 05:08 PM.
b4ball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2009, 05:05 PM   #30
bokes15
Playoffs!
 
bokes15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York City
Posts: 9,272
bokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterbokes15 is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: What we lose if we lose Chris Bosh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
Again you say no one will give to s***s about the Raptors? They don't now and trading Bosh aint gonna change a damn thing in that regard, but it will at least start us down the path we need to be on which is rebuilding.
.
We don't have cap space as of right now and not too many trading assets anymore so the only way to have gotten someone of high calibur to play with CB4 was through the trade market. Something that Bosh has no control over, that's all on BC and we've already seen what a great job he's done for us in that regard. However this summer we're losing 4 contracts (Marion, Parker, Voskuhl, Graham) and have some room to make some moves. How well of a bargaining chip do you see for an all-star vet who wants to win now coming to Toronto to say "we don't have much, but we do have Andrea Bargnani."

In writing this, I guess that's where we completely differ. I believe that it's possible for us to build a legit playoff contender in the next 2 seasons rather than to get rid of our very core and then roll the dice.
bokes15 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:51 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy