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Old 03-14-2009, 01:10 AM   #1
Fatal9
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Default Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

that universal health care means you won't be able to pick your own doctor or that doctors won't be able to make decisions?

I live in Canada and I've never had anyone tell me what doctor I have to choose? In fact I got an operation on my foot from a specific doctor that I picked.

And what's with Doctors not being able to make their own decisions? Isn't that's what is happening already in the US where Insurance companies call the final shots?

I always look at the American media and am shocked at how many lies get propagated by the media and political parties (mostly Republicans). Are Americans just that dumb and ignorant? Or do they know they are being lied to everyday?

Last edited by Fatal9 : 03-14-2009 at 01:12 AM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:13 AM   #2
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

I wonder what channels you're watching because most of the media here is as Liberal as can be.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete
I wonder what channels you're watching because most of the media here is as Liberal as can be.

I once watched an American news channel (I think it was CNN) and I was completely blown away by the amount of spin they try to inject and they always seemed to be trying to oversensationalise, not through the story but through emphaisisng pretty much every single word in their sentence. The news I watch in Hong Kong is, well, far, far less emotional, I mean the news readers just read the damn thing and get on with it, but that news channel had people swooning over the stupidest things.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

I live in Australia which has a two-tier public-private system which works well. I'm in the private system because I see health insurance as being one of the best investments one can make.

In our system the patients get a say in which doctor they see. So I agree with you on that point.

On the issue of doctors having a choice I disagree. In any universal system doctors will have very little choice in how they practice once they have chosen a speciality. They might not even get a say in what their speciality will be either.

Once you set up a government scheme you need to monitor and control how medical professionals operate and transition throughout the profession.

While I support the existence of a basic public system this is still a downside to all universal health care models.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete
I wonder what channels you're watching because most of the media here is as Liberal as can be.

Yeah, except the #1 news channel which is conservative as can be. Or, the #2 which is very neutral. Then there's the AM radio, which is 90% hard core right wing conservatism. But yeah, other than that, the US media is totally liberal.
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Old 03-14-2009, 01:59 AM   #6
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Cnn is by far the least bias news station in the US. Sometimes to the point they make excuses when a party does some dumb ****.

All I hear from the republicans are "socialism this, socialism that". Here them say it, socialism's the most evil thing in the world. IMO, pure capitalism is the most evil thing in the world. Getting money by any means necessary, **** whoís stepped on. While pure socialism isnít good either, atleast itís morally sound in theory.

I think it would be best to have a mix of both.
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:46 AM   #7
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeuceWallaces
Yeah, except the #1 news channel which is conservative as can be. Or, the #2 which is very neutral. Then there's the AM radio, which is 90% hard core right wing conservatism. But yeah, other than that, the US media is totally liberal.

NBC, CNN, ABC, MSNBC = All liberal

New York Times, New York Post, San Francisco Chronicle, L.A. Times, The Boston Globe and many more = All liberal

I don't see why it's that hard to understand
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:58 AM   #8
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuck the Ficks
I live in Australia which has a two-tier public-private system which works well. I'm in the private system because I see health insurance as being one of the best investments one can make.

In our system the patients get a say in which doctor they see. So I agree with you on that point.

On the issue of doctors having a choice I disagree. In any universal system doctors will have very little choice in how they practice once they have chosen a speciality. They might not even get a say in what their speciality will be either.

Once you set up a government scheme you need to monitor and control how medical professionals operate and transition throughout the profession.

While I support the existence of a basic public system this is still a downside to all universal health care models.
Pretty much... Yeah.

I don't know how things work in Canada, because I've never really studied their health care system. But, it only stands to reason that, if you are going to have universal health care, you aren't going to have access to any doctor in the country. Otherwise, the top doctors and the top hospitals would be inundated with patients.

I support universal health care completely, btw. I had the unfortunate occurrence of watching my dad's best friend die of cancer because he was relatively poor and he didn't have health insurance. The doctors basically told him that there were herbal remedies that he could afford that may help with the disease and cut him loose.

I don't know for sure if he would have lived much longer had he undergone chemo and the other treatments available, but what they did was basically hand him a death sentence. He lasted a few months and just shrunk down to nothing... It ate him alive.

But, forget people that can't afford health care. Even if you have insurance, these companies do everything they can to deny a claim. How many of these insurance companies operate is absolutely immoral.

I think everyone should have the right to medicine if it exists and can save their life. A society that doesn't value the health of its citizens is one that I don't completely understand.

Last edited by RedBlackAttack : 03-14-2009 at 03:01 AM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:59 AM   #9
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted Sword
Cnn is by far the least bias news station in the US. Sometimes to the point they make excuses when a party does some dumb ****.

All I hear from the republicans are "socialism this, socialism that". Here them say it, socialism's the most evil thing in the world. IMO, pure capitalism is the most evil thing in the world. Getting money by any means necessary, **** whoís stepped on. While pure socialism isnít good either, atleast itís morally sound in theory.

I think it would be best to have a mix of both.
lol. this post is so structurally flawed. you're trying to say that this isn't socialism that we are stepping into and then you go on to argue that it's a morally sound theory. wonder where this fool stands...
God brainwashed ****ing liberals. sure lets do everything for the the common good.. it always works soooo well.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolPete
NBC, CNN, ABC, MSNBC = All liberal

New York Times, New York Post, San Francisco Chronicle, L.A. Times, The Boston Globe and many more = All liberal

I don't see why it's that hard to understand
I don't see what is hard to understand about him seeing a conservative commentator decrying the possibility of this country having universal health care. It is no secret, after all. The party completely opposes it and they don't hide their views... On NBC or CNN or ABC or MSNBC.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
Pretty much... Yeah.

I don't know how things work in Canada, because I've never really studied their health care system. But, it only stands to reason that, if you are going to have universal healthcare, you aren't going to have access to any doctor in the country. Otherwise, the top doctors and the top hospitals would be inundated with patients.

I support universal healthcare completely, btw. I had the unfortunate occurrence of watching my dad's best friend die of cancer because he was relatively poor and he didn't have health insurance. The doctors basically told him that there were herbal remedies that he could afford that may help with the disease and cut him loose.

I don't know for sure if he would have lived much longer had he undergone chemo and the other treatments available, but what they did was basically hand him a death sentence. He lasted a few months and just shrunk down to nothing... It ate him alive.

But, forget people that can't afford health care. Even if you have insurance, these companies do everything they can to deny a claim. How many of these insurance companies operate is absolutely immoral.

I think everyone should have the right to medicine if it exists and can save their life. A society that doesn't value the health of its citizens is one that I don't completely understand.
but yeah the BIG GIANT government is going to be much more merciful... AHAHAH yeah lets let the government choose who lives and dies.. such a great plan..
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:03 AM   #12
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by brantonli
I once watched an American news channel (I think it was CNN) and I was completely blown away by the amount of spin they try to inject and they always seemed to be trying to oversensationalise, not through the story but through emphaisisng pretty much every single word in their sentence. The news I watch in Hong Kong is, well, far, far less emotional, I mean the news readers just read the damn thing and get on with it, but that news channel had people swooning over the stupidest things.
yup all of America's media is horrible ALL they are all injecting their opinions in a way to make it sound like it's fact.. and they play number and statics to create fear or to promote Obama or what ever they need. it's very very sad.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tainted Sword
I think it would be best to have a mix of both.
...which is what we currently have and have always had. A society based purely upon capitalism would never work. Do individuals pay for the police? No... that is socialized. Do they pay for the fire department? Nope... socialized. Do they pay for the US Postal Service? Nope... socialized. Public schools? Nope... socialized. The library? Socialized.

Personally, I put just as much if not more importance on a team of guys helping to hose down a burning house as I do operating on a dying person. It seems that a lot of conservatives do not hold these same views.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:09 AM   #14
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cannonball
but yeah the BIG GIANT government is going to be much more merciful... AHAHAH yeah lets let the government choose who lives and dies.. such a great plan..
Huh? No one would be booted out of a hospital under the universal system. There would be no 'choice' as to who lives or dies because everyone would be treated. You throw around terms like 'big government' and other conservative talking points like you know something. In reality, you don't know a thing. You haven't lived and you haven't had to watch people die because they had no health insurance.

You are just a kid that wants to follow the ideology of the party that your parents chose for you. When you get a little world experience and understand the way that policies like universal health care actually work, beyond your talking points, I'll be more than happy to debate you on this subject. Until then, keep your immature opinions to yourself or, at the very least, don't direct them toward me.
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Old 03-14-2009, 03:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Why do I always hear American Conservatives argue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlackAttack
...which is what we currently have and have always had. A society based purely upon capitalism would never work. Do individuals pay for the police? No... that is socialized. Do they pay for the fire department? Nope... socialized. Do they pay for the US Postal Service? Nope... socialized. Public schools? Nope... socialized. The library? Socialized.

Personally, I put just as much if not more importance on a team of guys helping to hose down a burning house as I do operating on a dying person. It seems that a lot of conservatives do not hold these same views.
HAHAHA you just made my argument...

1. Police=suck i'm sorry but they are lazy fat SOB's that abuse power like no other... Protect and serve MY ASS

2. Fire department= no comment. don't have any expiernce with real fire fighters all the fire fighters around here are volunteers.

3. Postal service=FAIL.... need I say more... i mean seriously UPS ftw

4. Public schools=yeah they sure are great aren't they...

5.Libraries- i bet an independent library would be a lot better... and the employees would actually be helpful. all the ones I go to they could care less... just like all government workers (not their fault) it's what government work does... just like it would do to health care...
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