Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Los Angeles Lakers Forum

Los Angeles Lakers Forum Los Angeles Lakers message board - los angeles lakers fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-02-2006, 06:20 PM   #1
lakers-city
Good college starter
 
lakers-city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,069
lakers-city has decent reputationlakers-city has decent reputation
Question what will is take for kobe to win MVP ?

most of us in here agree that kobe was robbed, as many of you probably know im not the biggest fan of kobe but the fact that he deserved MVP can not be denied.

lets say LA wins between 55-57 games and kobe has a great all around season at 30-6-7-48% and is all-nba first team and all-nba first defensive team, will he win it ? or it is completely impossible for the media to admit his talent ?
lakers-city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 09:03 PM   #2
ALlArOuNDPIaya
Rational on Kobe
 
ALlArOuNDPIaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 467
ALlArOuNDPIaya has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers-city
most of us in here agree that kobe was robbed, as many of you probably know im not the biggest fan of kobe but the fact that he deserved MVP can not be denied.

lets say LA wins between 55-57 games and kobe has a great all around season at 30-6-7-48% and is all-nba first team and all-nba first defensive team, will he win it ? or it is completely impossible for the media to admit his talent ?

He didn't deserve MVP, there was 2 candidates ahead of him: Dirk and Nash. You don't give a MVP to someone who barely gets into the playoffs as the 7th seed and loses in the first round. It just doesn't work that way.

I bet you ask the main forum, the neutral (Non Kobe/Dirk fans, since BOTH say they got robbed) They will tell you the MVP was well deserved by Nash, but could have easily gone to Nowitzski as well.

With that said, for Kobe to be a MVP, he simply has to do 2 things:

1. Decrease FG pergame while increasing APG.
2. Win, (5th seed or higher)

That's it, if you see Kobe go 28/4/8, while charging into the playoffs as the fourth seed, I can almost guarantee he would be voted MVP.
ALlArOuNDPIaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 10:27 PM   #3
magicmanfan
Local High School Star
 
magicmanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,399
magicmanfan is a pretty well-respected postermagicmanfan is a pretty well-respected postermagicmanfan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default don't make me ralph!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALlArOuNDPIaya
He didn't deserve MVP, there was 2 candidates ahead of him: Dirk and Nash......

Dirk is no where near MVP of this league, his defense sucks. Are you
people blind? Dallas could have beat Miami in 5 if Dirk had not played
matador defense 5-10 times every game!!! @@#%$#

Kobe would have won it if the Lakers had won 50+ games. No MVP
has ever come from a team with less even though they probably
deserved it. But the fact is that winning trumps everything else.
(not too sure of the "ever" part)

Same this year, if the Lakers win 50+, then Kobe will be right up there.
magicmanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2006, 11:23 PM   #4
lakers-city
Good college starter
 
lakers-city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,069
lakers-city has decent reputationlakers-city has decent reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALlArOuNDPIaya
He didn't deserve MVP, there was 2 candidates ahead of him: Dirk and Nash. You don't give a MVP to someone who barely gets into the playoffs as the 7th seed and loses in the first round. It just doesn't work that way.

I bet you ask the main forum, the neutral (Non Kobe/Dirk fans, since BOTH say they got robbed) They will tell you the MVP was well deserved by Nash, but could have easily gone to Nowitzski as well.

With that said, for Kobe to be a MVP, he simply has to do 2 things:

1. Decrease FG pergame while increasing APG.
2. Win, (5th seed or higher)

That's it, if you see Kobe go 28/4/8, while charging into the playoffs as the fourth seed, I can almost guarantee he would be voted MVP.

rather lose in the first round than choke in the finals. dirk is a joke.
lakers-city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 12:31 AM   #5
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakers-city
most of us in here agree that kobe was robbed, as many of you probably know im not the biggest fan of kobe but the fact that he deserved MVP can not be denied.

lets say LA wins between 55-57 games and kobe has a great all around season at 30-6-7-48% and is all-nba first team and all-nba first defensive team, will he win it ? or it is completely impossible for the media to admit his talent ?

Kobe certainly did not get "robbed" of MVP. There is no precedent for an MVP coming from a lower-than-4th seed team, much less a 7th seed, no matter how incredible his season was individually. If Kobe averages something like 31/6/6 next year with first-team defense and LA wins 52+ games or makes the 4th seed, I can see him winning it.

Only one player in the last 26 years has won MVP while playing for lower than a 3rd seed, and that was Jordan the year he averaged 35/5.5/5.9/3.2/1.6 on 54% shooting and won DPOY. And the Bulls were 4th seed, not 7th, and won 50 games. And Kobe's season, as great as it was, is not anywhere near as impressive as Jordan's was individually. Simply put, he needs to put it all together: individual greatness and team success. Will he do it? We'll see. But to suggest that there's some agenda against Kobe because he didn't win MVP as a 7th seed is faulty logic considering that no one has done it in nearly 30 years.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 03:24 AM   #6
lakerfreak
The go-to-guy
 
lakerfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,850
lakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALlArOuNDPIaya
. You don't give a MVP to someone who barely gets into the playoffs as the 7th seed and loses in the first round. It just doesn't work that way.


One, playoffs have nothing to do with this...its regular season MVP.

second...the rule for MVP is that the player's team must be over .500...not how good they are.

And you gotta look at other things. Stats is a big part of it yes...But Kobe Led...that was the most important...the lakers were the second youngest team in the league and Kobe made some "busts" better. Forget the 81 points it has nothing to do with it. But the fact that Kobe stayed and played in 80 games (2 missed due to suspension) makes him more valuable than any other.

He shows leadership by running back on defense when the other team is on the fast break. A team built entirely around a gaurd, almost upset a 2nd place team and Beat teams like the spurs and the pistons, the heat, and dallas twice.

Nash deserved MVP last year for turning around a mediocre Suns team THAT WAS ALREADY FULL OF MAGNIFICENT TALENT.

Subtract Kobe from this mix and you got yourself a lottery team for a good amount of seasons.

Keep in mind also we competed in most games and lost 12 in the last minute.

that woulda been a whopping 57 wins for ya.
lakerfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 02:12 PM   #7
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
second...the rule for MVP is that the player's team must be over .500...not how good they are.

This is false. Only one MVP in the last 24 years has come from a team with less than 54 wins, and that was Jordan in '88 as I mentioned above (and he had 50 wins and was a 4th seed, not 45 wins and a 7th seed; his season was far better than Kobe's individually besides). In fact, Nash's 54 wins this past season was the lowest of any MVP winner since 1988. The MVP's since '81 have averaged around 59 wins, FYI. So no, playing .500 ball is not the "rule" -- team success is, and that usually means > 54 wins.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 02:46 PM   #8
lakerfreak
The go-to-guy
 
lakerfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,850
lakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
This is false. Only one MVP in the last 24 years has come from a team with less than 54 wins, and that was Jordan in '88 as I mentioned above (and he had 50 wins and was a 4th seed, not 45 wins and a 7th seed; his season was far better than Kobe's individually besides). In fact, Nash's 54 wins this past season was the lowest of any MVP winner since 1988. The MVP's since '81 have averaged around 59 wins, FYI. So no, playing .500 ball is not the "rule" -- team success is, and that usually means > 54 wins.

Well its a vote...the rule may be to be above .500

but the media always chooses a top team basically.

dont tell me "its false", It actually is a rule...now did i say it has to be a team barely above .500? no...i said any team over .500.
lakerfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 03:09 PM   #9
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Well its a vote...the rule may be to be above .500

but the media always chooses a top team basically.

dont tell me "its false", It actually is a rule...now did i say it has to be a team barely above .500? no...i said any team over .500.

Umm, it's actually not a rule -- where are you getting this from? Players from sub-.500 teams receive MVP votes every year, dude. By "rule" I thought you were talking about an implicit standard for winning MVP, and my post was a response to that (you generally need >54 wins; the average MVP winner has 59 wins); but if you meant that there's some written rule somewhere which states that you need to be above .500, well, you're wrong.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 03:35 PM   #10
ManUtd
Banned
 
ManUtd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 243
ManUtd has an OK reputation so far
Default

It's simple. His stats will be there but he needs to win. 50+ wins should do it.
ManUtd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 04:19 PM   #11
Kobe4MVP
High School JV MVP
 
Kobe4MVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 661
Kobe4MVP has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManUtd
It's simple. His stats will be there but he needs to win. 50+ wins should do it.

Agreed. It's a shame though that 3 out of the top 4 MVP contenders this past season (including the winner) are HORRIBLE defenders. Aside from Kobe who of course was first-team, none of them made even the 2nd team All-Defense squad... just goes to show you where the NBA wants your attention focused. Kobe was clearly the best player in the league last year, no-one can really argue against that, unfortunately being the best and being the most-valuable aren't the same thing somehow. Maybe if Kobe plays some of that Dirk/Nash/Lebron/DWade style (non) defense this year he'll get the nod...
Kobe4MVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 04:41 PM   #12
magicmanfan
Local High School Star
 
magicmanfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,399
magicmanfan is a pretty well-respected postermagicmanfan is a pretty well-respected postermagicmanfan is a pretty well-respected poster
Default no Dirk

It makes me mad that so many people think Dirk is a top 4-5 player
in the NBA. His defense sucks. I taped and watched the finals a
few times and I never counted less than five times each game
where Dirk just backs off the net and lets Miami (usually DWade)
have a layup or dunk. Those games were so close, this could have
been the difference in all of them! Dallas in five if Dirk plays D.

So what if a 7-footer can shoot from anywhere....he needs to
play both ends to be an MVP candidate. Kobe4MVP makes a good
point of that of the top 4, only Kobe was on the all-defensive team.
None of the others even made the second all-d team.

50+ wins and Kobe stays healthy, he's the front runner.
magicmanfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 06:52 PM   #13
Loki
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,079
Loki is considered somewhat coolLoki is considered somewhat cool
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmanfan
It makes me mad that so many people think Dirk is a top 4-5 player
in the NBA. His defense sucks. I taped and watched the finals a
few times and I never counted less than five times each game
where Dirk just backs off the net and lets Miami (usually DWade)
have a layup or dunk. Those games were so close, this could have
been the difference in all of them! Dallas in five if Dirk plays D.

So what if a 7-footer can shoot from anywhere....he needs to
play both ends to be an MVP candidate. Kobe4MVP makes a good
point of that of the top 4, only Kobe was on the all-defensive team.
None of the others even made the second all-d team.

50+ wins and Kobe stays healthy, he's the front runner.

The "needs to play both ends to be MVP" thing is a fallacy. Neither Magic nor Bird were ever defensive forces, nor were guys like Barkley, Iverson, and Nash.
Loki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 07:57 PM   #14
lakers-city
Good college starter
 
lakers-city's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,069
lakers-city has decent reputationlakers-city has decent reputation
Default

and thats why nash having 2 mvps is a joke. and bird was a good team defender, so was barkley.
lakers-city is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2006, 09:27 PM   #15
lakerfreak
The go-to-guy
 
lakerfreak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 14,850
lakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterlakerfreak is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Umm, it's actually not a rule -- where are you getting this from? Players from sub-.500 teams receive MVP votes every year, dude. By "rule" I thought you were talking about an implicit standard for winning MVP, and my post was a response to that (you generally need >54 wins; the average MVP winner has 59 wins); but if you meant that there's some written rule somewhere which states that you need to be above .500, well, you're wrong.

When I said you have to be over .500 I was tlking about you cant be a losing team.

Name one losing team that had an MVP candidate
lakerfreak is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:28 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy