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Old 03-25-2009, 03:39 PM   #16
RaininThrees
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by Pistol Pete
I think that Colangelo definitely deserves atleast one more year, this offseason will be huge in determining his future with the club, if he can't turn it around, or show some significant improvement that the future will be better, I wouldn't be upset if he went - I'm a very large doubter that offensive up tempo basketball that ignores defense can even get it done, if he can't even deliver a winning up tempo team, it may be best to cut ties and try another GM before we lose all creditability.


I don't think this team needs to be a quote-unquote "up tempo" team. The goal of EVERY basketball team should be to get out in transition and take advantage of mismatches off of defensive rebounds should it not? The SSOL offense is not something I think the Raps aspire to be, and I don't think it has ever aspired to be. There was that '100 Shats' quote from Mitchell in 2006, but that was quickly quashed.

Early this year under Mitchell the team barely ran at all (last in fast break points I believe) so when Triano was brought in and talked about being a "more uptempo team" it was relative to what they were already doing... which I believe many people misinterpreted to be something akin to SSOL.
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Old 03-25-2009, 04:59 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

Very Nice read. To sum it all up and collect my thoughts from all of this. He came to the Raptors and was labeled as a Visionary. I blatantly remember the time when he said he was looking for depth and good players in the locker and out there on the arena. Right now, i think he is trying too hard to build around Andrea Bargnani. To be honest it is tough to build around a shooting C - we will just w8 and see what he has in store for the Raps next year. I'll give him one more strike, he is not a bad GM. He is a good visionary, i just think he has a tough time building around his beloved #1 pick.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by danumber88
Very Nice read. To sum it all up and collect my thoughts from all of this. He came to the Raptors and was labeled as a Visionary. I blatantly remember the time when he said he was looking for depth and good players in the locker and out there on the arena. Right now, i think he is trying too hard to build around Andrea Bargnani. To be honest it is tough to build around a shooting C - we will just w8 and see what he has in store for the Raps next year. I'll give him one more strike, he is not a bad GM. He is a good visionary, i just think he has a tough time building around his beloved #1 pick.

All he really needs to do is relpace Bosh with a pawer forward or Center who gets 11+ rebounds per game and then get a slashing shooting guard who can creat his own shot how hard can that be?
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by HalphbreedBaller
All he really needs to do is relpace Bosh with a pawer forward or Center who gets 11+ rebounds per game and then get a slashing shooting guard who can creat his own shot how hard can that be?

That's why this summer is so important.. to see if he can get those two players. Delfino is not the answer at the guard position though. He would be good off the bench for 15-20 mins. If we don't resign Marion, should we use that money to pick up Boozer and trade Bosh or Bargnani for a wing player? Boozer is injury prone and a risk but he's the kind of player we need for rebounding. So whether it be him or a player like him it doesn't matter, that should be our #1 goal.

I think we should look at drafting Warren or Evans because I realized that our team is lacking any kind of combo guard. Seems like it's hurting our overall depth.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by Toni
That's why this summer is so important.. to see if he can get those two players. Delfino is not the answer at the guard position though. He would be good off the bench for 15-20 mins. If we don't resign Marion, should we use that money to pick up Boozer and trade Bosh or Bargnani for a wing player? Boozer is injury prone and a risk but he's the kind of player we need for rebounding. So whether it be him or a player like him it doesn't matter, that should be our #1 goal.

I think we should look at drafting Warren or Evans because I realized that our team is lacking any kind of combo guard. Seems like it's hurting our overall depth.

Dude how we gonna convince Boozee to come to a losing team. Free agency isn't easy teams often end up paying good players bad contracts. Jamal Crawford and Ben Gordon will probably demand 10 mill so Booze will demand 15 mill. I think the best option is to resign Marion

I like the combo guard idea though and Evans and Warrens would be perfect combo guards that are skilled and smart. Both can contribute to the team a lot.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:09 PM   #21
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Dude how we gonna convince Boozee to come to a losing team. Free agency isn't easy teams often end up paying good players bad contracts. Jamal Crawford and Ben Gordon will probably demand 10 mill so Booze will demand 15 mill. I think the best option is to resign Marion

I like the combo guard idea though and Evans and Warrens would be perfect combo guards that are skilled and smart. Both can contribute to the team a lot.

Yeah I guess I meant a player like Boozer. Same defensive mentality and rebounding ability that can start next to Bosh or Bargnani. Boozer is too injury prone and probably would demand too much. But you get the idea.

Think about it though.. when was the last time this team had a legit combo guard?
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:26 PM   #22
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

Yeah, it's not the money. MLSE has tons of money. The only problem is that it's too hard to attract players to come to T.O. We're a Hockey town, not a baseketball town. It's the same problem with the Blue Jays. Well, in the case of the Jays, it's both money and attracting players to come to T.O.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by YaoMing4MVP
Yeah, it's not the money. MLSE has tons of money. The only problem is that it's too hard to attract players to come to T.O. We're a Hockey town, not a baseketball town. It's the same problem with the Blue Jays. Well, in the case of the Jays, it's both money and attracting players to come to T.O.

Isn't it the money too. I mean who wants to pay a Ben Gordon 10 million. The free agent we are acquiring has to be at the right price not like the mistake we did with Jason Kapono. Of course not many players want to play in Toronto but if we overpaid them they will come.
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Old 03-27-2009, 08:39 AM   #24
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

The one thing that concerns me about Bryan is the fact he is very image conscious. You have to wonder if the class act, nice guy, image players he likes to go after are even capable of possessing the kind of killer instinct that is required to actually win in the NBA. Sometimes you need a few take no prisoners, type of mentality players, in the dressing room to light a fire under everyone's ass. If everythings too cozy in the dressing room than it's too easy to get cozy on the floor as well. For example it's been mentioned, where are all the tatoos on this team? Is there even one in the whole dressing room? The only players with a true mean streak on this club are Jake V. and Andrea B. Someday soon, Andrea will be a lights out assasin for this team. But he's going to need some help to get this team over the hump, he won't be able to do it alone!
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Old 03-27-2009, 10:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by kmart
Isn't it the money too. I mean who wants to pay a Ben Gordon 10 million. The free agent we are acquiring has to be at the right price not like the mistake we did with Jason Kapono. Of course not many players want to play in Toronto but if we overpaid them they will come.

well, I don't mean unlimited, but given the same contract, any player would rather player for a more established team. NY Knicks sucks, but I bet 2010, when its cap space is down to almost nothing, they will be able to attract many players. You see, it's every kids' fantasy to win the Championships withe the Knicks, Celtics, or Lakers, but not with the Toronto Raptors, if you know what I mean. We lack history.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:27 AM   #26
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by antonaki1
The one thing that concerns me about Bryan is the fact he is very image conscious. You have to wonder if the class act, nice guy, image players he likes to go after are even capable of possessing the kind of killer instinct that is required to actually win in the NBA. Sometimes you need a few take no prisoners, type of mentality players, in the dressing room to light a fire under everyone's ass. If everythings too cozy in the dressing room than it's too easy to get cozy on the floor as well. For example it's been mentioned, where are all the tatoos on this team? Is there even one in the whole dressing room? The only players with a true mean streak on this club are Jake V. and Andrea B. Someday soon, Andrea will be a lights out assasin for this team. But he's going to need some help to get this team over the hump, he won't be able to do it alone!
J Voshkul is soft like and Barg's toughness is worse than that.lol The Rap's whole roster outside of Pop's is soft even Herculian JGraham.

This team needs a Ron Artest type of player, matter of fact RArtest would be an excellent signing(imo),especially if they are going w/ Caldy @ the 1, Barg's @ the 5 and Bosh @ the 4.

Btw- Crawford has to opt out of his contract and I doubt that he will in a recession aka depression.
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Old 03-28-2009, 12:33 AM   #27
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

LOL, antonaki1 I was was with you all the way up until the Bargnani one day being a "lights out assasin" part. Just because he doesn't smile and he stared down Fransisco Garcia after getting blatently shoved in the back doesn't mean he's some kind of intimidating force. Hell, Joey Graham and JO laughed when he did that. He's surely improved in the toughness department, but he's not someone who's gonna be known for his tenacious D, killer instinct, and a locker room/on court fire starter.

Last edited by bokes15 : 03-28-2009 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:21 PM   #28
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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LOL, antonaki1 I was was with you all the way up until the Bargnani one day being a "lights out assasin" part. Just because he doesn't smile and he stared down Fransisco Garcia after getting blatently shoved in the back doesn't mean he's some kind of intimidating force. Hell, Joey Graham and JO laughed when he did that. He's surely improved in the toughness department, but he's not someone who's gonna be known for his tenacious D, killer instinct, and a locker room/on court fire starter.

Yeah no kidding. God help us if Bargnani is ever the toughest guy on this team. Bargnani has many skills, Charles Oakley style toughness is not one of them. Though he doesn't back down when people try to intimidate him which is an improvement over his timid demeanor last year.
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

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Originally Posted by DJMason
Yeah no kidding. God help us if Bargnani is ever the toughest guy on this team. Bargnani has many skills, Charles Oakley style toughness is not one of them. Though he doesn't back down when people try to intimidate him which is an improvement over his timid demeanor last year.

Yupp give him some credit at least. He's obviously not a tough guy that's not his role. But at 7'0, 250 I wouldn't take **** from nobody either.
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Old 03-29-2009, 03:03 PM   #30
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Default Re: Bryan Colangelo: Visionary or Overhyped? (Warning: Long, Detailed Read)

Maybe i used the wrong terminology, by lights out assasin i was referring to us finally have a player that can take over a game in the dying moments like Dirk of the Mavs. Unlike Chris, Andrea can shoot the dagger as well as drive from beyond the arc and pound the rim. That's a deadly combination late in the game, and when it's his turn to be the franchise player, he will do exactly that. Give him a little time. Still, don't sleep on his toughness either, he has made huge strides in that department this year. Plus you don't see it much yet, because he is still feeling it out, but he's got quite the mean streak in him too. Add another 20 pounds in the next couple years and he will punnish people in the paint. So in this aspect i have to think Bryan Colangelo was more the visionary than the overhyped. Few of us believed in Andrea, and before this year i certainly was guilty of that. But now, since game 1 of this year, the more i watched him, the more i realized that he's only begun to tap the surface of his potential.
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