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Old 03-30-2009, 03:56 PM   #1
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Default Do we need a really productive bench?

part of the problem for the lakers in recent weeks has been bad bench play. the starters come back in after our leads have been all but lost, and the rest of the game is mediocre at best on the lakers part.

come playoff time, do we need the bench to log significant time? the playoffs seem suited to teams that have really tight rotations anyway. basically i'm wondering if it's possible that really productive benches are overrated when it comes time for the playoffs.

if this is already a topic in other threads please delete
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Our bench was at its best when Trevor and Lamar came off it. Since Bynum's injury and Vlad's trade, we've been forced to start Lamar and then Trevor.

This has hurt our bench play since Jordan is still somewhere in outer space and Sasha can't make a 3 if his life depended on it!
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Of course we do man, especially at the time of the season where we need our starters to rest, it would be great to have the bench mob playing great ball right now, and if possible the 3rd stringers playing good ball would be even better for everyone.

In the playoffs is when we need our starters to be ready to play about 45-48 minutes a game because thats where every possession counts and in the finals its even more important.

Its a shame right now to see guys like Kobe and Pau playing huge minutes and being tired all because idiots like farmar are out there complaining at the worst possible time of the year. This is the time of the season where integrity is what will help this team win. Everyone needs to do what they are supposed to and do what they say they are going to do.

It all starts with everyone doing their own part, and as a result, the team usually succeeds. The starters do their part...why can't the bench?
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

earlier in the season when we played the celtics and cavaliers i was excited to see our bench manhandle those guys in the 2nd and 4th quarters. unfortunately i've lost a lot of confidence in these guys' abilities.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LA_Showtime
earlier in the season when we played the celtics and cavaliers i was excited to see our bench manhandle those guys in the 2nd and 4th quarters. unfortunately i've lost a lot of confidence in these guys' abilities.

yeah i had the same thought. i think we won on christmas largely because our bench outplayed the celtic's.

but as long as we have a couple contributers at key positions, do we need the second unit as a whole playing well to win the championship? boston only had spotty success with it's bench last year and went all the way.

the starters get rest during the playoffs format. i guess i'm thinking if andrew contributes and maybe another player, we can mix and match bench and starters with less worry than during the regular season. maybe i'm way off though
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

no you don't need as deep a bench in the playoffs the starters can play 45 minutes a game because the pace is slower, there's more timeouts and they are longer than the regular season... the halftime break is 5 minutes longer and there's more days off between games... a team can get by with a 7 man rotation, 8 easily
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
no you don't need as deep a bench in the playoffs the starters can play 45 minutes a game because the pace is slower, there's more timeouts and they are longer than the regular season... the halftime break is 5 minutes longer and there's more days off between games... a team can get by with a 7 man rotation, 8 easily

the question was addressed toward the lakers, however. and, to answer the OP's question, the lakers need a solid rotation of between 8 or 9 players to be fully effective, IMO. the hole left by bynum's injury had repercussions as noted above. having that one extra player who can start or come off the bench is huge. when bynum returns, he will have a very positive impact on the bench and this will hopefully be a differentiator for the lakers as opposed to having to "get by" like other teams will have to.



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Old 03-30-2009, 11:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SourGrapes
yeah i had the same thought. i think we won on christmas largely because our bench outplayed the celtic's.

but as long as we have a couple contributers at key positions, do we need the second unit as a whole playing well to win the championship? boston only had spotty success with it's bench last year and went all the way.

the starters get rest during the playoffs format. i guess i'm thinking if andrew contributes and maybe another player, we can mix and match bench and starters with less worry than during the regular season. maybe i'm way off though

i agree that we don't need our bench to play up to their potential to win the championship but it still really disappoints me that they haven't been able to stay consistent. i know they've had to go through lineup changes and injuries, but i wanted to see maturity/growth from sasha and jordan farmar and as of now i would say they've regressed.
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
the question was addressed toward the lakers, however. and, to answer the OP's question, the lakers need a solid rotation of between 8 or 9 players to be fully effective, IMO. the hole left by bynum's injury had repercussions as noted above. having that one extra player who can start or come off the bench is huge. when bynum returns, he will have a very positive impact on the bench and this will hopefully be a differentiator for the lakers as opposed to having to "get by" like other teams will have to.



it's not a question of getting by, that's not what i meant at all... it's how phil coaches in the playoffs..go back and look at their championship runs, starters minutes go up and bench players 6, 7 and 8 go down and the rest don't play at all except for garbage time

phil uses a 8 man rotation with the starters getting increased minutes and the other 3 getting decreased minutes, he did it in chicago and with the 3 peat teams and other playoff years since

now obviously injuries play a part but even then you can see that phil sticks to a plan he has in place..
example: last year even with bynum down turiaf went from 19 minutes a game in the regular season to 9 minutes a game in the playoffs

they only time he'll really deviate is when there's a matchup he can exploit, like luke on harpring last year

Last edited by gts : 03-30-2009 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 03-30-2009, 11:47 PM   #10
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lakerfreak
Of course we do man, especially at the time of the season where we need our starters to rest, it would be great to have the bench mob playing great ball right now, and if possible the 3rd stringers playing good ball would be even better for everyone.

In the playoffs is when we need our starters to be ready to play about 45-48 minutes a game because thats where every possession counts and in the finals its even more important.

Its a shame right now to see guys like Kobe and Pau playing huge minutes and being tired all because idiots like farmar are out there complaining at the worst possible time of the year. This is the time of the season where integrity is what will help this team win. Everyone needs to do what they are supposed to and do what they say they are going to do.

It all starts with everyone doing their own part, and as a result, the team usually succeeds. The starters do their part...why can't the bench?

I keep reading on ISH about farmar and attitude but not on other media sites.... is this something people are vibing off farmie or is it like payton/rice where it is being reported? Links? Or something?
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:47 AM   #11
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

yeah seriously..what has Farmer been saying/complaining about? havn't read anything about that.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:50 AM   #12
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Net
yeah seriously..what has Farmer been saying/complaining about? havn't read anything about that.
i don't remember anything that really stands out...
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by momo
I keep reading on ISH about farmar and attitude but not on other media sites.... is this something people are vibing off farmie or is it like payton/rice where it is being reported? Links? Or something?


Quote:
Originally Posted by All Net
yeah seriously..what has Farmer been saying/complaining about? havn't read anything about that.

Every year we always hear a small something about Farmar barking at Phil or whatever. Then Phil just came out a couple of weeks ago saying "guys in the second unit are disgruntled". After thinking about it, the only guys I can think of who are disgruntled are farmar, who played about 11 minutes last game and he's been playing like garbage lately.

He does annoying things on the floor, such as not passing to people on the right plays, or even avoid passing it to Kobe to prove some sort of point.

Its more of a vibe thing, but you can definitely sense that there are issues with Farmar right now.
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Old 03-31-2009, 08:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
it's not a question of getting by, that's not what i meant at all... it's how phil coaches in the playoffs..go back and look at their championship runs, starters minutes go up and bench players 6, 7 and 8 go down and the rest don't play at all except for garbage time

phil uses a 8 man rotation with the starters getting increased minutes and the other 3 getting decreased minutes, he did it in chicago and with the 3 peat teams and other playoff years since

now obviously injuries play a part but even then you can see that phil sticks to a plan he has in place..
example: last year even with bynum down turiaf went from 19 minutes a game in the regular season to 9 minutes a game in the playoffs

they only time he'll really deviate is when there's a matchup he can exploit, like luke on harpring last year

my point was that with this team, pjax has done things differently in terms of the rotation than in years past... when the team is at full strength, you have a 9 or 10 man rotation that is quite effective. phil has changed his approach and i think it is a competitive advantage for the lakers to leverage that depth (as long as they have a solid guy as part of that bench mob (i.e. LO or Bynum). the key is the lakers health.

i dont disagree with what you are saying of the traditional pjax, but that is the traditional approach that pjax has used. i just don't think it will map fully to that if the lakers are at full strength. they will leverage what they have. they would be stupid not to. zen knows he has to change too ya know...


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Old 03-31-2009, 12:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Do we need a really productive bench?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalMike
my point was that with this team, pjax has done things differently in terms of the rotation than in years past... when the team is at full strength, you have a 9 or 10 man rotation that is quite effective. phil has changed his approach and i think it is a competitive advantage for the lakers to leverage that depth (as long as they have a solid guy as part of that bench mob (i.e. LO or Bynum). the key is the lakers health.

i dont disagree with what you are saying of the traditional pjax, but that is the traditional approach that pjax has used. i just don't think it will map fully to that if the lakers are at full strength. they will leverage what they have. they would be stupid not to. zen knows he has to change too ya know...


but's that's regular season, why wouldn't you want the best players on the floor for the most time? the pace of the playoffs is so different then the regular season you don't need to play the deep bench players..
what's better 45 minutes of kobe and 3 with sasha or 38 minutes of kobe and 10 with sasha...lol

actually interesting we discuss this because ESPN insider had an article on this yesterday..lol now we just need someone with insider to post it so we can see what it says
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