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Old 04-10-2009, 09:01 PM   #16
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

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Originally Posted by godofgods
This. Dirk >>>>>>>>> Kobe but since he's white, he doesn't get the credit he deserves.
Go smooch a dick.
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Old 04-10-2009, 09:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Id like to preface this post by saying yes...I do love a demoralizing run-on sentence.


In the grand scheme of things...what does winning 50 games and losing 9 years in a row even mean?

Its not competitive to be fighting to get out of the 8th seed spot to put off a virtually assured first round exit(since the Mavs themselves are not the epic record having #1 seed I doubt there is an upset). Being in the playoffs doesnt make you competitive.

More often than not it makes you the bad end of 45 second long clip on the first round series win in someone elses champion DVD where at best....they show your team make a three and change the pace of the music to create mock drama for kids that dont know what happened who are watching the video on a tuesday afternoon on ESPN 6 in 2022.

Doesnt really matter if youre decent but in the end irrelevant every year. The Heat as you said were out of the playoffs last year. Wade was hurt half the season and they played the equal of two full teams due to injury(they played 22 people last season). And with 15 wins they played their last game like a week and 2 days before the Mavs played theirs.

I bet some of the Mavs got to their summer homes before some of the Heat.

A young upcoming team in need of the experience for growth? Playoffs are nice. 50 wins shows promise. For a team led by a soon to be 30 yearold whos second best player is....36? A 50 win first round(or second....or 3rd for that matter) round loss season is just putting off for another day the rebuild that has to arrive for the greater good.

Mavs, Suns, and Pistons are just irrelevant and nothing they do can really have a positive impact. Winning 50 just doesnt mean much of anything. It matters like the Hornets winning 50 a few times with Glen rice mattered. It...."Thats....mildly impressive" matters. Just makes you the team a smug internet poster struggles to remember 10 years later for the sake of a possibly more harsh than needed reference.

So basically 29 teams have useless seasons every year?
Sports is more than winning titles.
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Old 04-10-2009, 11:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

When the issue is success? Id say there are at most 4 teams a year that matter. Doesnt mean everyone on the other 26 suck or that you can tell anything of their ability based on it. But its not all that impressive to almost matter every year. But ive often thought being a Bulls fan screwed up my idea of winning. For 10 years they either won the title or had a letdown of a season. Might win 50. Lose to the Pistons, Knicks, Magic, or whoever and....so what?

Winning to me means just that. 53 games isnt being a winner. The second round isnt winning. At least be on the level where youre playing to be the winner. Finals is impressive.

Conference finals is a little. But if we are talking winning im not too impressed by consistient 50 win seasons followed by crushing playoff losses. Players like that end their careers being asked if they feel their careers are complete.

Karl Malone, Ewing, and Reggie did not win to me. You either win or you dont. Short of that its just a matter of how much you failed by.
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:06 AM   #19
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
When the issue is success? Id say there are at most 4 teams a year that matter. Doesnt mean everyone on the other 26 suck or that you can tell anything of their ability based on it. But its not all that impressive to almost matter every year. But ive often thought being a Bulls fan screwed up my idea of winning. For 10 years they either won the title or had a letdown of a season. Might win 50. Lose to the Pistons, Knicks, Magic, or whoever and....so what?

Winning to me means just that. 53 games isnt being a winner. The second round isnt winning. At least be on the level where youre playing to be the winner. Finals is impressive.

Conference finals is a little. But if we are talking winning im not too impressed by consistient 50 win seasons followed by crushing playoff losses. Players like that end their careers being asked if they feel their careers are complete.

Karl Malone, Ewing, and Reggie did not win to me. You either win or you dont. Short of that its just a matter of how much you failed by.

your points, while valid to an extent, really have nothing to do with dirk individually (i.e. the subject of this thread).
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:04 AM   #20
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

The Fraud will win MVP but real basketball fans know how special the Dirk man is.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

I am a huge dirk fan. That said hes not the mvp. However he should be first team all nba again.

Red black attack, I know exactly what you are talking about. The reason he disrupts other teams defenses is because they have the option of guarding him with a 3 which means the 4 has to guard howard. This is why Josh is so important to the mavs when hes at his best. Hes the one wing player who can take advantage of the mismatch dirk creates this way. Another option is guarding him with a 4 whom dirk will abuse and also, this means the 4 cant be the help defender most teams expect their 4 to be because obviously you dont wanna leave dirk open. The 4th option is to go small which then generally lets the mavs outrebound you because dirk is still 7 feet tall. He is truly unique.
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Old 04-11-2009, 05:22 AM   #22
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

I'd rather have my team win 50+ games for a decade and go deep into the playoffs a few times than be like the Heat and win one title and be irrelevant for the rest of the decade.

Also, Dirk definitely deserves praise for keeping his team competitive the whole time. Didn't look it up, but my guess is Dallas has the 2nd highest amount of wins this decade behind the Spurs
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Old 04-11-2009, 07:10 AM   #23
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

If merely being a winning team that isnt a lock to go out in the frist round is being competitive...

The Heat have only missed the playoffs like 2 times since 1995. Last year, the year before they got Wade, and maybe...maybe one more. dont feel like checking. But in Zos time as leader they basically were Dirks Mavs, THey had about a 5 year run as a top team. 50-60 wins. Even have the epic first round loss to the 8th seed.

THe Heat have for the most part been a team with an ok to elite record since they got out of expansion mode and I wanna say they have been in the conference finals more than the Mavs have in that time period. And of course...they won it all.

Or better...they won period. Mavs never have. What kind of fan would rather watch failure than winning? I could at least begin to understand if its like...one title and 20 years of 11 win seasons. But the Heat have been the ISH low standard of competitve for most of the last 15 years have been in conference finals against Jordans Bulls, lost a close game 7 in the conference finals to the Pistons, and actually won the title. They have had easily(for me at least...liking to see my team win) the better recent history. Even very recent. Give me 5 years where we win 59 and barely miss the finals, win the title, make the playoffs, have an awful year, and then get back to the playoffs over making the playoffs 5 in a row with 4 of them being virtually soul crushing exits. Loss to a guy we let walk for age/money reasons so we could sign Eric Dampier. Loss in the finals after being up 2-0 and up 13 in the 4th of game 3. Loss in the worst upset by record in american basketball history. Loss in the first round. And now its...whatever happens. And it all came after a first round loss....in a season the Heat won a good first round series led by their rookie star who would go on to win them the title.

All things considered...the Heat have had the better run to me. I dont see how a fan could not want the title just to avoid one or two off years.

Ive been lucky enough to see 2 of the 3 teams I care about win it all(Bears and Bulls...Panthers still waiting). Having seen the highs and lows of all 3 of those teams....id take another few 7-9 or even 1-15 years to see the Pats miss that kick that took the Panthers superbowl.
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Old 04-11-2009, 09:05 AM   #24
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
If merely being a winning team that isnt a lock to go out in the frist round is being competitive...

The Heat have only missed the playoffs like 2 times since 1995. Last year, the year before they got Wade, and maybe...maybe one more. dont feel like checking. But in Zos time as leader they basically were Dirks Mavs, THey had about a 5 year run as a top team. 50-60 wins. Even have the epic first round loss to the 8th seed.

THe Heat have for the most part been a team with an ok to elite record since they got out of expansion mode and I wanna say they have been in the conference finals more than the Mavs have in that time period. And of course...they won it all.

Or better...they won period. Mavs never have. What kind of fan would rather watch failure than winning? I could at least begin to understand if its like...one title and 20 years of 11 win seasons. But the Heat have been the ISH low standard of competitve for most of the last 15 years have been in conference finals against Jordans Bulls, lost a close game 7 in the conference finals to the Pistons, and actually won the title. They have had easily(for me at least...liking to see my team win) the better recent history. Even very recent. Give me 5 years where we win 59 and barely miss the finals, win the title, make the playoffs, have an awful year, and then get back to the playoffs over making the playoffs 5 in a row with 4 of them being virtually soul crushing exits. Loss to a guy we let walk for age/money reasons so we could sign Eric Dampier. Loss in the finals after being up 2-0 and up 13 in the 4th of game 3. Loss in the worst upset by record in american basketball history. Loss in the first round. And now its...whatever happens. And it all came after a first round loss....in a season the Heat won a good first round series led by their rookie star who would go on to win them the title.

All things considered...the Heat have had the better run to me. I dont see how a fan could not want the title just to avoid one or two off years.

Ive been lucky enough to see 2 of the 3 teams I care about win it all(Bears and Bulls...Panthers still waiting). Having seen the highs and lows of all 3 of those teams....id take another few 7-9 or even 1-15 years to see the Pats miss that kick that took the Panthers superbowl.


The Mavs are going to win 50 games. .They would be 4 in the east right now and they would have a good chance of coming out of the East too. Imagine Orlando in the West. The Mavs are the 7th seed right now and they are also tied for the 6th seed also. Since your a Bulls fan your probably used of winning championships.

Wade was in his 3rd year by then far from a rookie. He also had a VERY talented team with Shaq, Walker, Haslem, Mourning, Posey, Williams, Gary Payton. Alot of these players were just around there prime also besides Payton. Wade also had some phantom calls........
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Old 04-11-2009, 12:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

I dunno if I would call him the MVP this year but he has to be in teh conversation.

When you look at the Mavs roster, you can see they just don't have the depth they once had. They just can't handle injuries to their rotation guys the way other teams can.

At the start of the year, the bulk of the scoring was expected to be from Dirk, Terry, Howard and Stackhouse. Lets say we think the Mavs will average 100 PPG. Well Dirk at 25, Terry at 20, JHo at 19 and Stack at 11 with the rest picked up by Kidd, Wright, JJB, Bass and Damp sounds about right yes?

Well, Stack has been out essentially the whole year playing in just 9 games. Not only does that nuke 10% of their scoring, it literally forces the Mavs to put Terry on the bench so they can have at least one scorer with the second unit. Do this causes the Mavs starting lineup to have only 2 legit scorers in Dirk and JHo which makes it slightly more difficult to keep up with teams that start hot or to step on the neck of ones that come out slow. Its a bunch of negatives in a domino effect the whole way though the team b/c of this.

Add that Howard has been in and out of the lineup with injury this year (missed 30 games) and suddenly you lose one of your better defenders and another 20% of your offense. The Mavs are 32-15 when he plays 20 minutes this season. Thats a good enough winning % for them to be second in the West this year. Never mind they also lost Terry for 9 games as well. This meant guys like JJ Barea and Antoine Wright were the guys asked to score. There were many long stretches of game where the lineup would be JJB, Wright, Singleton, Dirk, Bass. (scarier is when Dirk is OFF the floor) This is a lineup Dirk is leading to the playoffs? Are you kidding me?

Now obviously other teams have been dealt injury blows this year that have hurt them as well. I dont deny that. But when you look at the Mavs roster and who all they have lost, its actually quite impressive they are challenging for 6th in the West and its a testament to how good Dirk is.

Last edited by kentatm : 04-11-2009 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
If merely being a winning team that isnt a lock to go out in the frist round is being competitive...

The Heat have only missed the playoffs like 2 times since 1995. Last year, the year before they got Wade, and maybe...maybe one more. dont feel like checking. But in Zos time as leader they basically were Dirks Mavs, THey had about a 5 year run as a top team. 50-60 wins. Even have the epic first round loss to the 8th seed.

THe Heat have for the most part been a team with an ok to elite record since they got out of expansion mode and I wanna say they have been in the conference finals more than the Mavs have in that time period. And of course...they won it all.

Or better...they won period. Mavs never have. What kind of fan would rather watch failure than winning? I could at least begin to understand if its like...one title and 20 years of 11 win seasons. But the Heat have been the ISH low standard of competitve for most of the last 15 years have been in conference finals against Jordans Bulls, lost a close game 7 in the conference finals to the Pistons, and actually won the title. They have had easily(for me at least...liking to see my team win) the better recent history. Even very recent. Give me 5 years where we win 59 and barely miss the finals, win the title, make the playoffs, have an awful year, and then get back to the playoffs over making the playoffs 5 in a row with 4 of them being virtually soul crushing exits. Loss to a guy we let walk for age/money reasons so we could sign Eric Dampier. Loss in the finals after being up 2-0 and up 13 in the 4th of game 3. Loss in the worst upset by record in american basketball history. Loss in the first round. And now its...whatever happens. And it all came after a first round loss....in a season the Heat won a good first round series led by their rookie star who would go on to win them the title.

All things considered...the Heat have had the better run to me. I dont see how a fan could not want the title just to avoid one or two off years.

Ive been lucky enough to see 2 of the 3 teams I care about win it all(Bears and Bulls...Panthers still waiting). Having seen the highs and lows of all 3 of those teams....id take another few 7-9 or even 1-15 years to see the Pats miss that kick that took the Panthers superbowl.
Thats a terrible comparison. The zo heat made it out of the first round twice. They made the conference finals once. They won 57 or more games once. The dirk mavs have won 57 or more games 5 times. They made it out of the first round 5 times(in 6 years) and made the conference finals twice and the nba finals once. The mavs won signifigantly more over a signifigantly longer period of time than the heat.
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Quote:
Thats a terrible comparison. The zo heat made it out of the first round twice. They made the conference finals once. They won 57 or more games once. The dirk mavs have won 57 or more games 5 times. They made it out of the first round 5 times(in 6 years) and made the conference finals twice and the nba finals once. The mavs won signifigantly more over a signifigantly longer period of time than the heat.

So.....in the time period in question(zo till now) the Heat made 3 ECF, the finals, and won it all and the Mavs made 2WCF, the finals, and the second round several more times. The heat won 44 games on average and 51 total playoff games and the Mavs 46.6 on average and 42 total playoff games. I gotta take one of those stretches as my career....give me the ring. 103% of the time. The Mavs have won more in the regular season(though not much more....because they were awful in Zos days) and come up short in the playoffs. 2 deep runs to 3 for the Heat...and of course...the HEat beat them the one time they met.

If I have to be on one of those teams for the whole time period...I want to be on the heat. I win about the same number of regular season games, win more in the playoffs, and win it all while beating the team I choose not to be on?

Who wouldnt pick that side?
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Old 04-11-2009, 01:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Having seen the highs and lows of all 3 of those teams....id take another few 7-9 or even 1-15 years to see the Pats miss that kick that took the Panthers superbowl.
A resident of Chicago, and you root for the Panthers?



Who did you root for in the playoff game from a few years ago?
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:03 PM   #29
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

dirk is a choker but he can be redeemed if he makes it to the conference finals this year.
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Old 04-11-2009, 02:05 PM   #30
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Default Re: Dirk For MVP

Im from Chicago and most of my family is still there but ive been in the Carolinas for about 16 years. Left me...conflicted. One of those "just hope its a good game" games.
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