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Old 05-01-2009, 07:42 PM   #16
DonDadda59
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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Originally Posted by GOBB
Buster Douglas and while Tyson wasnt in his prime Lennox Lewis. No I'm not saying Buster or Lennox = Ali, but to say he never fought anyone like Ali when he lost to these two? Well its a bit silly.

Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier are also comparable to Tyson.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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Originally Posted by Tarik One
I don't understand this at all. Your saying that a younger, quicker 1966 Muhammad Ali is MORE succeptible to Tyson than he would have been after a 3 1/2 year layoff from the sport?

Experience and maturity.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

Tyson lost to Douglas because he didn't give a **** leading up to the fight. He was out partying, half ass training... even his sparring partner knocked him down, which is an obvious sign that someone of Tyson' calibur just didn't give a hoot about the fight.

I'm telling you guys, Cus was the rock/father figure that Tyson needed to succeed. If he lives up until the Douglas fight at least, there is no way he is out partying, slacking in his training or doing stuff he shouldn't have been doing. Tyson' downfall was his lack of structure and discipline, which all happened due to the death of Cus.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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Originally Posted by -primetime-
Douglas's mother had just passed away before that fight happened...

I think maybe that night Douglas could have beaten damn near anyone...he was unstoppable that night...scared of nothing...

and then of course there is the same Tyson fan "blah blah" about him not caring or being prepared at all...

but I really think it was just more of Douglas just fighting like one of the greatest ever...

Or more like Tyson burned out and didn't have his legs under him because he was built for short violent bursts. Any bigger heavyweights with decent chins and actual skill (Ali, Foreman, Holyfield, Lewis, etc) could beat him in his prime.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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Originally Posted by Tarik One
I don't understand this at all. Your saying that a younger, quicker 1966 Muhammad Ali is MORE succeptible to Tyson than he would have been after a 3 1/2 year layoff from the sport?

Ok.....I give you my point.......First off, Ali had two tune up fights against World class opposition b4 he fought a different version of Mike Tyson (Joe Frazier). I'm assuming he has the same kind of build up before fighting Tyson. If it was his first fight out of the layoff then no, I don't think he'd win.

Anyways, Ali was a better all around fighter after he came out of exile plain and simple. There's a small window before that prime ended, but he was a better fighter. The early to mid 20s Ali was often careless in his approach. He relied too much on his athleticism, and simply put his chin out there to get hit. That's why Banks dropped him, and Cooper nearly had him out cold. Ali could make a fool of a big puncher (Liston) IF AND ONLY IF he was slow. Prime Tyson was far....far from slow.

The 60s Ali showed weaknesses against Banks, Cooper, and Jones that all lead me to believe he would be KOed by a prime Tyson at that stage of his career
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

No, that's not it at all.

You're mis-informed if you truly believe that, Don.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Tyson lost to Douglas because he didn't give a **** leading up to the fight. He was out partying, half ass training... even his sparring partner knocked him down, which is an obvious sign that someone of Tyson' calibur just didn't give a hoot about the fight.

I'm telling you guys, Cus was the rock/father figure that Tyson needed to succeed. If he lives up until the Douglas fight at least, there is no way he is out partying, slacking in his training or doing stuff he shouldn't have been doing. Tyson' downfall was his lack of structure and discipline, which all happened due to the death of Cus.

No doubt about that, Tyson's career and personal life spiraled out of control after Cus' death, for Tyson it was like losing a father. But regardless, I don't think Tyson was built for fight longevity. His job was to get in there and end it quick, if it got past the mid-fight point, he generally tired out.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
No, that's not it at all.

You're mis-informed if you truly believe that, Don.

Uh, Buster Douglas (who? ), Evander Holyfield (2x and frustrated him to the point Mike bit off his ear), and Lennox Lewis have all proven my point. Just because you saw a documentary on Mike Tyson once doesn't mean you're a boxing savant or historian.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

You're using fights when Tyson was nowhere near his capability as proof why he would lose - that's not being logical, is it? We don't ever hear someone say Shaq wouldn't be dominant in another era because he isn't doing now (when he'spast his prime) would we? No, we always look at how dominant he was in his prime (and to be honest, Tyson was never in his prime with Cus, so it's only speculation of just how much more he could've improved under Cus) and use that as reason why he would dominate any era.

Moral of the story is it's stupid to use those fights because Tyson wasn't in top form. Watch Tyson early on and compare it to the fighter that was in the ring in any of those fights and his style was completly different.

His head-movement and defense and overall skills were gone, his punching placements/accurary was gone and in place of that was a guy who looked for the big punch more than anything.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

I think if Tyson didnt surround himself with people taking advantage of him and kept his trainers? He would have been more successful. Sure Cuz being gone affected him but allowing those two goons in his life hurt Tyson more.

And Don why do you keep assuming Tyson couldnt last long in fights? Towards the latter of his career he became that way. Guys like Lennox took advantage of that and just boxed him because Tyson would extend himself early trying to KO you. But prime Tyson didnt have issues going the distance. 5-6 rounds? Prime Tyson could have gone longer.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

Carbine has been making some good points.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

Tyson spent what would have been his "prime" years behind bars...where he spent time over a b*tch that has lied about rape in the past...

King used his own personal lawyers that knew nothing of rape trials...


We were all robbed of a legit PRIME TYSON vs. PRIME EVANDER fight...


reading this thread makes me want kick Don King in the balls repreatedly...


(Evander still would have won though...)
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:18 PM   #28
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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The 60s Ali showed weaknesses against Banks, Cooper, and Jones that all lead me to believe he would be KOed by a prime Tyson at that stage of his career

This is not valid. All those guys you mentioned fought a still inexperienced kid fresh out of the Olympics. Ali was nowhere near is prime. You're talking 1961 and 1962, not 1965-1968 when he dominated the likes of Chuvalo, Cleveland Williams and Ernie Terrell. Ali was a totally different boxer by then. You don't believe me, check the tapes.

Your argument is like comparing 2004 Lebron vs 2004 Kobe.

Quote:
reading this thread makes me want kick Don King in the balls repreatedly...

Can't blame Don King for Tyson's screwups. Believe it or not, Don put out a lot of fires for Mike back on those days.

Last edited by Tarik One : 05-01-2009 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:24 PM   #29
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

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Originally Posted by Tarik One
Can't blame Don King for Tyson's screwups. Believe it or not, Don put out a lot of fires for Mike back on those days.
I can blame him for not getting Mike a legit lawyer...who would have actually saw that the girl accusing him of rape had a history of lieing about it in her past...


but you are right, I do think that Tyson would have self distructed no matter what...

I think Tyson even said that his doctors told him that "he is addicted to self destruction"...it is like he seeks it out...
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:37 PM   #30
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Default Re: Prime Mike Tyson in the 1970's

When Tyson fought Holyfield the first time, Evander was 34 and HE was the one considered way past his prime (Mike was 30). And Lennox is a year OLDER than Mike. So it's not like those guys were in their primes when they went up against Tyson, Holyfield was a full four years older and had lost more in terms of ability than Mike had... and beat him twice. Lennox, the older fighter, just outlasted and knocked him into 'bolivion'. Tyson was in fact in his prime when he went against the no name Buster Douglas and was harpooned because he burned out (undefeated and considered invincible by many). So stop with the lame excuses.
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