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Old 05-16-2009, 01:48 AM   #16
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by STelfair31
no s.hit f.aggot
Get outta here with that immaturity crap.
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Old 05-16-2009, 02:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by DwadeOverLebron
im glad to see your love for jereme, and yes jereme i believe is waukegans tallest player... so yes he had to protect the paint, and yes i've stated before that WY is a more talented team, but waukegan doesn't have any slouches either... colin nickerson, mike springs both future D-1 players, i think jereme shot 4-12 from the field... i like jereme but like i said before he just doesn't have that "it" factor that a #6 ranked player in the nation i feel should have... i feel brandon paul has "it" but im sorry not jereme, but AGAIN! i hope i'm wrong and i HOPE he turns out to have a brandon rush type of collegiate career at the very least since thats who he reminds me of in terms of body type.
You're still wrong about this and I'm not going over it again. He's one of the best prospects to come out of the state of Illinois in the last 15 years.

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Also marcus jordan did not just catch and shoot can you really say thats all he contributed to WY's win? he's there leader, he's the player they look too for a basket, he was the best player on both ends of the floor, and most importantly the leadership poise and heart he brought to the court was infectious throughout his entire team! thats something you can't put a stat on... EXCEPT with a "W"
What metric are you using to quantify leadership, poise and heart? If you want to talk about things he did as a basketball player, fine. If you want to talk about sappy, empty, arbitrary notions, I'm not interested in that.
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Old 05-16-2009, 03:36 PM   #18
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by TheGame414
You're still wrong about this and I'm not going over it again. He's one of the best prospects to come out of the state of Illinois in the last 15 years..


ok i really hope so... i think brandon paul is a better prospect... but we're not talking about prospects here... we're talking about one game in which marcus jordan thoroughly out played anybody in that game... BIG players play BIG in BIG games... jereme did not! but again he's only a jr and he has another year to accomplish that, and i hope he does.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
What metric are you using to quantify leadership, poise and heart? If you want to talk about things he did as a basketball player, fine. If you want to talk about sappy, empty, arbitrary notions, I'm not interested in that.

The metric im reffering to is a CHAMPIONSHIP also add to the fact that he was the most outstanding player of the game, not cuz he's jordans kid, but becuz he was exactly that! the most outstanding player of the game, if WY didn't have marcus... your looking at waukegan as state champs... please don't disagree with me on this one, im not saying jereme richmond is a bad prospect, all im saying is he wasn't the best player when he needed to be.
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Old 05-16-2009, 04:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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we're talking about one game in which marcus jordan thoroughly out played anybody in that game... BIG players play BIG in BIG games... jereme did not! but again he's only a jr and he has another year to accomplish that, and i hope he does.
So throughout the history of basketball, on any level, Jereme Richmond is the first great player to ever have less than his best game with a title on the line.

The very first, right? (And it isn't like he was bad. He was still by far the best all-around player on the court.)

I'm just double-checking because I could've sworn this has actually happened countless times. But, apparently, Jereme Richmond is the very first.

I can remember plenty of times in the IHSA state tournament alone. Just off the top of my head: Kevin Garnett and Ronnie Fields got knocked out in the round of eight. Corey Maggette went something like 4 of 24 from the field, also in the round of eight. At least Richmond got his team to the title game. Andre Igoudalia, speaking of title games, turned the ball over, like, eight times in the '02 title game and got torched by Darius Glover, which never should've happened. Julian Wright lost in the title game, too. While Derrick Rose did win two state titles, he had a combined 11 points and 10 assists in those two title games. Was that "his best"?

What about all the great players that never even reached state, much less reached the title game and nearly carried their team to a championship against a much more talented team? Dee Brown and Shannon Brown never got there. (Speaking of former Illini, different state but same result: neither did Deron Williams and Bracey Wright in Texas.) Brandon Paul never got there. The top players in the '08 class, Iman Shumpert and Mike Dunigan, never got there. Demetri McCamey and Evan Turner didn't get there. (Granted, Derrick Rose was in their way.) Sherron Collins never got there. Julian Wright got there as a junior, but not as a senior. Same as Rich McBride (who was a huge prospect coming out of high school but was slowed in college by foot problems, plus playing behind Dee/Deron/Luther till he was a junior).

Things like "great players play their best in big games" are just empty, meaningless platitudes that can be easily disproven with dozens, if not hundreds of examples throughout the history of the sport. We've seen Kobe Bryant have a bad NBA Finals. We've seen Magic do it, we've seen Bird do it. If the best players in the history of the sport can come up short- over the course of a series, no less, not one single game- I think we can cut some slack to a high school kid, no matter how elite of a prospect he may be.

On the flipside, Sergio McClain was the leader of a Peoria Manual team that won four state titles. His senior year, he scored 22 points in the state title game while both Frank Williams and Marcus Griffin had bad games.

As a collegiate player, he was a three-year starter but more or less a role player. Meanwhile, Frank Williams was an All-American.

Are you starting to get the picture yet? How meaningless and often untrue this whole "great players come up big in big games" thing? Do you have any idea what "sample set" means? Given enough "big games," or clutch situations, etc, a player will ultimately revert to what he really is as a player. In any single game- or any limited series of games, for that matter- any great player can have an off night, or any not-so-great player could have the game of his life, for that matter.

You say you think Brandon Paul is a better prospect. Fine. Maybe it'll turn out that way, though you would literally be the only basketball-watching person to have correctly predicted that. Paul certainly is an outstanding prospect, one of the top 40 or so in the nation for 2009. So why did Jereme Richmond outplay him in the sectional championship game? Or did that not matter because it wasn't a big enough game?

Quote:
The metric im reffering to is a CHAMPIONSHIP
....which is a team accomplishment. So all that tells me is that Marcus Jordan is better than Jereme Richmond at having much better teammates. Kudos to him for that.

I mean, seriously, you can't tell the difference between the overall talent level on the two teams? Jordan may have been the best performer in that title game, but in no way was he the most talented player on his own team. They had, like, six D-I guys, including at least three Top 100 recruits (Colvin, Johnson, Thompson). They were bringing D-I recruits off the f-cking bench!

Meanwhile, Richmond had Colin Nickerson, who I will grant is a stud. That's it. He had Colin Nickerson, and then a bunch of midgets.

You keep talking about Marcus Jordan as this team's leader and leading scorer and whatever...this team was so loaded that while yes, Marcus Jordan did lead the team in scoring, he did so at a whopping clip of 10 points per game. They didn't win because Marcus Jordan is better at basketball than Jereme Richmond, they won because they're so damn balanced and talented that a team with two legit players, no matter how great one of them is, was up against it big-time. Richmond had to have a great game for them to win, and he merely had a good one.

Quote:
if WY didn't have marcus... your looking at waukegan as state champs
If you take any one of their future Division I studs off the team, Waukegan wins it. You're talking about a team that got 21 points and 11 boards from their bench in that title game. Meanwhile, Waukegan? They literally got nothing from their bench, because four of their starters played 32 minutes and the fifth starter played 31+. You're comparing a team that brought a pair of future Division I guards off their bench to a team that literally did not have a bench.

Are you starting to see why it's such a stupid way to measure who the better player was?

And this is without even mentioning how much more effective Richmond would be if his coach was worth a sh-t. He wants to post him up, but then they don't get him the ball when he does. So he wasn't getting touches in the post, where he shouldn't have been so often, and didn't get nearly enough touches on the wing either, where he should have been.

Quote:
please don't disagree with me on this one
I'll stop disagreeing with you when you stop being so wrong.

Quote:
all im saying is he wasn't the best player when he needed to be.
Which puts him in fine company. Pretty much everyone except Michael Jordan has been there at some point in basketball history.

I'd say the fact that he was only the second junior to win the Chicago Sun-Times' POY award, and only the second junior to win the News-Gazette's POY award, and took a relatively undermanned team that far was pretty damn impressive.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

I think Jeffrey sticks for 1 more season at Illinois, because there is no way he has a role in 2010/2011 unless he finds some sort of offensive skill set.
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Old 05-17-2009, 12:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by Interminator
I think Jeffrey sticks for 1 more season at Illinois, because there is no way he has a role in 2010/2011 unless he finds some sort of offensive skill set.

Don't be ridiculous; the coaching staff, teammates all love him and he'll be a senior leader for the team. He's fine.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

He's the next Chester Frazier.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:32 PM   #23
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by wang4three
Don't be ridiculous; the coaching staff, teammates all love him and he'll be a senior leader for the team. He's fine.
But do you give him minutes over their talented guards they have coming in in 2009 and 2010?

I agree that hes a solid defensive player,practices hard, and earned his scholarship this season but he could end up in a Bobby Frasor role for Illinois, im not sure if hed be willing to do it.

I posted that because I think he might want to play with his younger brother in college, at UCF.
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Old 05-17-2009, 01:44 PM   #24
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

I don't think Jeff is as serious as Marcus about basketball so I don't think he'll transfer just to be able to play. He's comfortable in his role, he's been getting better and he's trustworthy. Even for the talent we'll have with Paul, DJ, Bertrand, and Crandall, it will still be three sophomores (and I wonder if Joe will even redshirt this coming year) and a freshman. There will be opportunities for a senior guard with a controlled game to play.
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Old 05-17-2009, 04:35 PM   #25
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

Jeff Jordan isn't going to transfer.
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

i know nothing about college ball admitedly

can anyone tell me, what are the chances of either two reaching the nba?
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Old 05-17-2009, 10:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

I can speak of Jeff and his shot is very, very grim. He has NBA athleticism but he's 6-1, 6-2 with little to no point guard skills, not a consistent jump shot. He has the ability to be a great team/man defender but that's about it.

He seems like a very well-spoken/smart dude. I know he's majoring in Psychology, I wonder if he is going to go into it professionally.
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Old 05-17-2009, 11:50 PM   #28
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by wang4three
I can speak of Jeff and his shot is very, very grim. He has NBA athleticism but he's 6-1, 6-2 with little to no point guard skills, not a consistent jump shot. He has the ability to be a great team/man defender but that's about it.

He seems like a very well-spoken/smart dude. I know he's majoring in Psychology, I wonder if he is going to go into it professionally.
He has NBA athleticism, but he can't use it in a game. I don't recall a time when he's got to the rim and used his amazing athleticism to finish. Athleticism like that is useless on offense if you can't use it to your advantage by getting to the rim and finishing strong.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:05 AM   #29
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

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Originally Posted by IlliniFan
He has NBA athleticism, but he can't use it in a game. I don't recall a time when he's got to the rim and used his amazing athleticism to finish. Athleticism like that is useless on offense if you can't use it to your advantage by getting to the rim and finishing strong.

Yeah I feel the same. He doesn't seem to have that much competitive fire in him; he plays rather calmly and casually. I just don't know if he really enjoys playing basketball all that much. I'm sure he has fun, but I don't know if he really loves it.
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Old 05-18-2009, 12:18 AM   #30
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Default Re: Jeffrey Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
Yeah I feel the same. He doesn't seem to have that much competitive fire in him; he plays rather calmly and casually. I just don't know if he really enjoys playing basketball all that much. I'm sure he has fun, but I don't know if he really loves it.
I don't know that it's the competitive fire. He just doesn't have the ability to utilize his physical gifts on offense when facing another team. Some people have it and some don't. He has elite physical ability, not basketball ability.
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