Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Philadelphia 76ers Forum

Philadelphia 76ers Forum Philadelphia 76ers forum - 76ers message board - Sixers fan forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-25-2009, 03:42 AM   #16
artificial
:-P
 
artificial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: alone with everyone
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Draft

For draft sources, anyone can choose whatever source they prefer, so let's not get into that. I don't put too much weight in ESPN, much less in Chad Ford, but that's just me.

I'm not too high in Jrue so if by any chance he falls to #17 I'd rather someone else. However, I was also very skeptical of Rajon Rondo in that draft (he was being considered for that pick, which ultimately became Carney) and look how he turned out.

One thing we can agree in Jrue is that there's no consensus on him, as he is projected anywhere from #10 (Chad Ford) to #24 (draft.net) And that's understandable, since he is the typical high-risk high-reward prospect.


Speaking of mock drafts, many of them changed when the lottery came out, as expected. Just for fun, here are how some sites have projected Philly's pick: (further adjustments in the respective sites are likely)

draftexpress - Ty Lawson
Wishful thinking he'd fall this low, but I'd love to see this happen. Fits the team well IMO and seems to be solid.

ISH - BJ Mullens
Uh... no. I'm disappointed by this site. Seriously.

hoops Hy pe- Eric Maynor
I like his characteristics on paper, as he would fit very well if he pans out. Wouldn't be bothered at all if he is picked, and is very likely to be available.

ESPN (Chad Ford) - Eric Maynor
He read it here. Bastard....

draft.net - Ty Lawson
Oh yeah
artificial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 11:37 AM   #17
donsanchez306
High School Varsity 12th Man
 
donsanchez306's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 708
Default Re: Draft

here's a lil' spice of reality. "with the 17th pick in the 2009 draft the philadelphia 76's pick : Tyler Hansbrough"
donsanchez306 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 02:31 PM   #18
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,440
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Green and Evans have terrible contracts. They have negative value. You couldn't get another team to take those two if you gave them a first round pick. They are more than one year and more than the minimum for guys who should be making the league minimum on a one year contract. Not a single team in the NBA would take them for nothing if you offered them. That's a stone cold fact - just like Holiday going in the lottery.

They dont have terrible contracts. Stop making up stuff.

You're predicting Holliday goes lottery. Thats fine. But dont tell me he is a projected top 8 pick with nothing to back it up outside of 2 sites. Espn (then you go off at how credible, reliable they are) and realgm.com. You listed no other sources for a reason. But didnt fail to type "etc etc etc" as if it was a consensus, a known Holliday is rated top 8. Stop.

You're not making good arguments.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 02:32 PM   #19
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,440
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
One thing we can agree in Jrue is that there's no consensus on him, as he is projected anywhere from #10 (Chad Ford) to #24 (draft.net) And that's understandable, since he is the typical high-risk high-reward prospect.

Exactly. Someone with sense.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 08:42 PM   #20
artificial
:-P
 
artificial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: alone with everyone
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by donsanchez306
here's a lil' spice of reality. "with the 17th pick in the 2009 draft the philadelphia 76's pick : Tyler Hansbrough"

Well, he would make sense since we're getting rid of Dalembert. He would form a great frontcourt with Brand and MoSpeezy.




...

...Yes, of course I'm kidding. That scared me, but I wanted to pretend it didn't :P
artificial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2009, 11:03 PM   #21
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

No, you're right, Reggie Evans, with 2 years at $11 million and Willie Green with 2 years and $7 million both have value. Someone will trade for them. Just don't hold your breath on it. These two, along with Dalembert, have horrible contracts that no one wants. If we had to give up a first round pick just to get Minnesota to take Carney, a younger and more promising player than either Green or Evans, who had an expiring contract paying him $1.3 million, there will surely be people lining up to trade for Evans, who is only overpaid by $9 million, or Green, who is overpaid by about $6. Once their contracts expire, they will either play for the league minimum or will be out of the league all together.

As for Holiday, I cited 2 NBA analysts on ESPN, the pre-eminent sports website in the world, and RealGM - that's 3 sources that are more credible than anything else you throw out there. Like Russell Westbrook did last year, guys like Holiday, end up going in the lottery unless there is injury or personal issues (not hard worker, health, drugs, bad kid, etc.). Holiday could go as high as 4 and as low as 14, but he isn't very likely to be around at 17. Plus, he wouldn't necessarily be the best fit in Philly as he's likely 2 years away from being ready to play any significant minutes in the NBA.

If he's there at 17, I'm guessing Sixers take him. I just wouldn't bet on him being around that long.

And Chase Budinger is anything but slow by the way. He doesn't have great lateral movement - particularly on defense, but he's a solid and legit NBA athlete - far above guys like Korver and Kapono, who are valuable NBA shooters. He's no less athletic than a guy like Stephen Curry, and probably more so.

By the way, I meant Thorpe makes money in coaching, not Ford - he already made his money when his site was bought out by ESPN with 300,000 subscribers - he teaches at UH. Thorpe also has Holiday going in the lottery, but I didn't list him because he helps to coach and train at IMG, where Holiday is getting ready for the draft, so that's that on that.

Johnny Flynn's stock seems to be rising though.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2009, 07:19 PM   #22
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

You know what, we could do a lot worse than Jeff Teague. Ideally, he would be a better pure PG instead of a scoring 6-2 combo guard, but he has the skills to be a very good offensive PG, whereas Maynor looks like a guy who got to handle the rock a lot for a bad team and doesn't have any oustanding skills that stand out - actually kind of reminds me of Acie Law a little bit. As thing stand now, we have the 17th pick - give me an Iguodala, Speights, Smith, Dalembert type pick - high risk, high reward, as opposed to a Carney type pick. Give me a young guy with clear holes in his game, but freakish upside over a more mature player that doesn't stand out in any way at all.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2009, 10:32 PM   #23
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,440
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
If he's there at 17, I'm guessing Sixers take him. I just wouldn't bet on him being around that long.

I dont want him anyway. Really think Holliday is overrated. What has he done?

Quote:
And Chase Budinger is anything but slow by the way. He doesn't have great lateral movement - particularly on defense, but he's a solid and legit NBA athlete - far above guys like Korver and Kapono, who are valuable NBA shooters. He's no less athletic than a guy like Stephen Curry, and probably more so.

Yea when i saw slow i have an idea how fast he should be/i expected him too be. Thats all. He can definately run in the transition. Guy just really disappointed me last season is all. Was expecting him to really make his name a household.

Quote:
By the way, I meant Thorpe makes money in coaching, not Ford - he already made his money when his site was bought out by ESPN with 300,000 subscribers - he teaches at UH. Thorpe also has Holiday going in the lottery, but I didn't list him because he helps to coach and train at IMG, where Holiday is getting ready for the draft, so that's that on that.

Cant remember what article i read but scouts said Holliday is moving up the draft board.

Quote:
Johnny Flynn's stock seems to be rising though.

Yeah thats who i wanted watching coll bball last season. Really liked him. Now I'm just sold on Eric Maynor. I just like his ability to distribute the ball, take care of it and play some real good defense. All I want my PG to do. He can work on other skills. Hopefully he can be our Rondo so to speak.

Stinks Sixers only have 1 draft pick.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 03:45 AM   #24
artificial
:-P
 
artificial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: alone with everyone
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SixersFan76
You know what, we could do a lot worse than Jeff Teague. Ideally, he would be a better pure PG instead of a scoring 6-2 combo guard, but he has the skills to be a very good offensive PG, whereas Maynor looks like a guy who got to handle the rock a lot for a bad team and doesn't have any oustanding skills that stand out - actually kind of reminds me of Acie Law a little bit. As thing stand now, we have the 17th pick - give me an Iguodala, Speights, Smith, Dalembert type pick - high risk, high reward, as opposed to a Carney type pick. Give me a young guy with clear holes in his game, but freakish upside over a more mature player that doesn't stand out in any way at all.

Iguodala was not a high risk high reward player going into that draft. While few people envisioned him becoming this good, he was projected a player with rather limited upside, but that had strong elements that would help him become a solid player such as good athleticism, solid defense and good all around game.

Speights, Young were indeed high risk high reward players, as both had the characteristic "potential" label, and were seen as "needing to develop before contributing". Fortunately, both are developing well.


The thing is, we get it that you really like Jrue. He may turn into a great player and prove you right. Nobody is denying that. But you don't have to go overboard and say that every player with his characteristics the Sixers have picked are great.

If for some reason Philly picks Jrue (or Teague) I will be cheering for him. I'm just skeptical of him, and I like other prospects better.

Last edited by artificial : 05-27-2009 at 03:47 AM.
artificial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 05:00 PM   #25
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

Flynn looks like he's shooting up the draft boards. He very well might end up being the best PG in the draft. As for Holiday think about this - what did Westbrook do? He was a freshman PG who was forced to play out of position and was 18 years old. What he does have is great ability and size and tantalizing potential. If he's there at 17, you almost have to take him, but I'm not sure why he would last that long. By the way, Holiday will already be a better defender than Maynor on the NBA level, in spite of age difference. I liked Maynor, but Acie Law keeps coming to mind. A guy who played against inferior competition on a team where he got to dominate the ball a lot and pad his stats. His turnover ratio was on the high side and he's a 6-2 guy who is light, not particularly fast, not very athletic, not very strong, not a great pure shooter, and doesn't have particularly creative or great passing ability. He will be an NBA player, but he might be nothing more than a decent back up and if he pans out, his ceiling is still no better than a middle of the road starter. Sixers can't win with that considering the current make up of the team. I'd rather take a risk on a high ceiling guy - presuming Rubio, Jennings, Flynn, Holiday aren't available, I think I'd take a flyer on Teague if he's there, instead of taking a guy like Maynor. Maybe it's prejudice versus where he played or preference for one great skill over a lot of average ones, but I think I'd take Lawson and Collins over him as well.

Iguodala's stock was all over the place. He was coming out as a sophmore who still had a raw game. Some projected him in the top 5, others as low as 15. That was a result of both, incredible athleticism, and because of how raw he was. That is what I mean by high risk, high reward. Obviously, in the lottery, we're talking about different levels of risk versus second half of the first round.

Actually, I'm not sold on Holiday one bit. I think the comparisons to Westbrook are overblown because while Holiday is a solid athlete, he doesn't have Westbrook's amazing speed or athleticism. I just believe he will be gone by the time the Sixer pick. In fact, I never said Sixers have to take a player with his characteristics - I said he doesn't seem like a good fit. The guy I would rather take a gamble on over Maynor is Teague.

At the end, we don't know who is or isn't going to be there. Trades, injuries, guys pulling out, people amazing or disappointing during workouts - a lot of time to decide. My only points were that I would take a gamble on a very high reward player like Teague over a more NBA ready player like Maynor, who seems to have a lower ceiling, and that based on how these things go, I've read in several places I consider reliable, and judging by prior history, that Holiday will go in the lottery.

Plus, as I read more about all these guys and watch some clips, etc., I'll probably change my mind about a hundred times between today and the draft.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 06:11 PM   #26
artificial
:-P
 
artificial's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: alone with everyone
Posts: 4,470
Default Re: Draft

Quote:
Assuming they (Sixers) remain at No. 17, here are three possibilities:

Jonny Flynn, Syracuse: Flynn seems destined to go at the 10th or 11th spot, but a few unexpected choices beforehand could make him available at 17.

Ty Lawson, North Carolina: A month ago, this speedy guard seemed sure to be drafted higher. In some assessments, he is the sixth-ranked point guard in the draft.

Jrue Holiday, UCLA: Holiday, a freshman, has yet to hire an agent, which means he can return to school. If he stays in the draft, the 18-year-old could be a high-risk, high-reward selection for the Sixers.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090527_Rambis_reportedly_out_of_76ers__race.html

Probably useless info as it's just some writer's speculations. He says Flynn is unlikely to be available, so why list him? If he's around by 17 for some mistake, take him.

And again, I don't think Jrue would fit -independently from if he pans out or not-. Surprisingly, it seems we agree on that fan76.

Should've listed Teague instead of Flynn.

As of now, the prospects Stefanski should be evaluating seriously, according to this thread, would be

-Lawson
-Maynor
-Teague
-Jrue
-Flynn?
artificial is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 06:44 PM   #27
Posterize246
PhilLEEs 2011
 
Posterize246's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: North Philly, PA
Posts: 15,763
Default Re: Draft

Flynn could be around, the Bulls worked him out today or yesterday and they've got the 16th pick. Why they did that with Derrick Rose there idk, but they did.
Posterize246 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2009, 07:35 PM   #28
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

Who knows why teams do some of the things they do. I am skeptical that Flynn drops below 14.

Agreed on the guys they should be looking at, although, to be honest, they should look at absolutely everyone other than Rubio - he's the only guy they realistically won't be able to trade up to get and who has no chance of dropping out of the top 5. They should look at Collins from UCLA - he might be a Mario Chalmers type in the NBA - UCLA guys usually pan out pretty well (Ed and Charles O'Bannon notwithstanding). They should also look at any number of Europeans who likely go in the second round.

Another guy I hope they look at is Victor Claver. He might go in the first, although his agent is trying to steer him into the second, so when he does come over in 2 years, he isn't restricted by the rookie scale. He's a 6-11 combo forward who has a lot of potential. There are several Spanish and French point guards out there who in a few years could turn into the next Jose Calderon and could be well worth the gamble of buying a second round pick and taking as an asset for the future.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 12:32 PM   #29
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

By the way, reports of Calathes going to Greece have yet to be officially confirmed. Maybe he stays in the draft. If so, he remains a legitimate possibility. If he does sign in Greece, but is still in the draft (fuzzy on the rules here), he'd be a great gamble in the second round.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2009, 01:49 PM   #30
SixersFan76
I hit open 5-footers
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 195
Default Re: Draft

ESPN:

Everyone is scratching their heads about Nick Calathes' decision to sign with Panathinaikos of Greece. I'm not.

Here's what's not being reported. Calathes' three-year, 2.1 million euro contract is worth more than you think. Given the exchange rate, that's $3 million guaranteed. Now here's the kicker: that's Calathes' net, not his gross. European contracts take care of taxes, an apartment, car, travel and living expenses. So Calathes' take-home pay comes with many perks.

He'd have to get a contract starting at roughly $2 million per year to make up the difference. He'd have to be a lottery pick to manage that.

As for concerns about a huge NBA buyout, the buyout is $500,000 (and the NBA team that drafts him can pay the entire amount) and he can return to the NBA after one year in Europe.

But money isn't the only thing. He also knows he'll play a prominent role on Panathinaikos next season. The teams that were looking at drafting him this year -- Dallas was the hottest for him -- couldn't offer the same guarantee.

I know people are shocked that a young man with a chance to make an NBA roster would turn it down, but given Calathes' background, it's not a terrible move. In fact, it might end up helping his draft status.

Contrary to reports, sources say there is no clause in his contract requiring him to withdraw from the draft.

If he stays in the draft, the contract doesn't necessarily hurt his chances of going in the first round. A number of teams drafting in the 20s (where Calathes was projected) might still have interest. With a number of teams in that part of the draft worried about payroll, getting Calathes off it for a year or two could be attractive.

If he withdraws from the draft and plays well in Europe, the NBA will be knocking his door down when he's ready to head this way.




Pittsburgh's Sam Young is getting a lot of love after toughing it through a workout in Indiana last weekend. Young was injured in his first workout in Toronto when a piece of the device that measures vertical jumps became lodged in his left biceps while Young was testing for the Raptors.

The Raptors struggled to get the piece dislodged, and Young had to have it removed at the hospital. He had the wound bandaged with some gauze and was back killing in workouts by the end of the week.

For a team looking for a player with some toughness, that's going to bode pretty well.




Jonny Flynn's teammate and best friend, Paul Harris, was also in the Attack Athletics workouts the two days I was there.

Harris is an impressive physical specimen. He has one of the most NBA-ready bodies I've ever seen -- think Corey Maggette. What's amazing about it is that Harris doesn't lift weights. Those huge biceps, thick chest and ripped abs are the product of genetics, not weight training.

"I've never seen anything like it," Attack's head scout Greg Ryan said. "Guys can spend years in the weight room and don't look like that."

Harris looked like the hardest worker in the gym the past two days. He's stinging over his snub from the Chicago pre-draft combine. There was a time when Harris was ranked as a solid first-round pick. Now everyone seems to be writing him off.

"Paul Harris is coming back!" Harris says with a smile. "I'm working hard. I'm going to prove them wrong."

Harris is a really interesting prospect. He has the body and athleticism to succeed in the league. He plays physical defense and is one of the best rebounding guards you'll ever see. His jump shot isn't terrific and he's really a power forward in a 6-foot-4 body, but watch him on defense on just about anyone and you wonder whether he could be a guy like the Celtics' Tony Allen in the pros.

I agreed with the NBA for the most part on whom it did or didn't invite to the camp. But Harris should've been there. If he keeps working this hard, he could be in the league a long, long time.




Perhaps the most interesting prospect in the gym was Patrick Beverley. Beverley might be the biggest enigma of the draft.

He was on the NBA radar screen as a freshman at Arkansas and had a solid sophomore season before dropping out of school and falling off the map. Beverley resurfaced in Ukraine, of all places, and seems to have found himself with the help of former NBA coach Bob Donewald.

Although there are differing explanations of why Beverley left Arkansas, he says he was frustrated that he wasn't getting the opportunity to play the point. He knew if he was going to make it in the NBA, he had to prove to scouts that he could be a full-time point guard in the pros.

Over in Ukraine, he got the chance to make his point. "It was a big adjustment. Life over there was very different. The game was different. I was playing against men."

What did he learn?

"I learned that a point guard is a leader, on and off the floor. I grew up and realized that it takes hard work to be successful. I came back with a different perspective on the game."

The results look pretty impressive on the court. Beverley is going to surprise a lot of NBA teams. He already had his first workout in Miami, and a source inside the team said the Heat were wowed by his performance.

Watching him, it's not hard to see why. He's very quick. He is an explosive leaper who, at one point in three-on-three play, flew into the lane and tried to dunk off an offensive rebound. He can be a lockdown defender who won't back down against anyone. And you could see he's getting a good feel for running a team. He threw a couple of nice alley-oops to Paul Harris, didn't turn the ball over and looked to get his teammates involved.

His shooting also seems to have improved markedly. Although Beverley's main bread and butter is getting to the basket, he also proved he could hit an open jump shot.

From here, Beverley had a workout with the Bulls on Saturday. Then he was set to be part of the large group workout in Minnesota. Then he's heading back to Europe to play in the Reebok Eurocamp in front of a number of NBA GMs who are there to see Brandon Jennings. Finally, he'll head back, do another large group workout in New Jersey, then several more targeted workouts with teams that are interested.

Watching his talent, it's hard to see him slipping out of the second round. We've moved him up about 15 places on our Big Board and could move him up again if he continues to get positive feedback from workouts.




I also got a chance to catch up with Israel's Omri Casspi in the Attack Athletics gym in Chicago. Casspi was fresh off a plane from Tel Aviv and was doing a light workout, so there wasn't a lot to say about him as a prospect.

The truth is Casspi's the type of player who shows better in competition anyway, and he expressed some frustration at the draft process. "I'm not sure how you can judge someone by just shooting or dribbling drills. It's different when it's a game."

Casspi told me that it was becoming tougher and tougher for international players to choose the NBA because of the money top international players are getting offered in Europe. Casspi said he had turned down several deals in Europe already that would've netted him more than the deal Nick Calathes got. Why would he turn down guaranteed cash?

"My dream is to play in the NBA," Casspi said. "It's also the dream of so many people in my country. We all are waiting for the day an Israeli is in the NBA. I want to do it for them and for me."

Casspi is currently projected to go somewhere between 25th and 35th in the draft.
SixersFan76 is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:57 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy