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Old 06-10-2009, 11:06 AM   #76
Posterize246
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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Originally Posted by InspiredLebowski
Tell me about it man, wish I'd utilized the DVR a lot more. I just can't get into the scouting portion until I have some understanding of where Indy'll draft. Do look forward to Nivins, Brown, and Summers (especially him, seems like Jeff Green 2.0) though. Don't have much knowledge of potential 2nd rounders. Some Dante Cunningham thoughts'd be cool, think he'll be able to be a rotational 4?
I forgot about Cunningham he'll definitely be added to the list. Once he's able to handle the ball more he'll be a 3, he can guard them it's just the offense that needs work as a SF. I think he did the best job of anybody guarding Kevin Durant 2 years ago.

What guys have Indiana worked out? Sixers workout process seems to be so slow. We worked out Terrence Williams, Ty Lawson, Stefon Jackson, Jodie Meeks, and Toney Douglas. Then a solo workout for Marcus Thornton. I'm wondering when the rest of the guys are scheduled.

edit: we're working out Christmas, Collison, McClinton, and Ellington today

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Old 06-10-2009, 01:26 PM   #77
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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I forgot about Cunningham he'll definitely be added to the list. Once he's able to handle the ball more he'll be a 3, he can guard them it's just the offense that needs work as a SF. I think he did the best job of anybody guarding Kevin Durant 2 years ago.

What guys have Indiana worked out? Sixers workout process seems to be so slow. We worked out Terrence Williams, Ty Lawson, Stefon Jackson, Jodie Meeks, and Toney Douglas. Then a solo workout for Marcus Thornton. I'm wondering when the rest of the guys are scheduled.

edit: we're working out Christmas, Collison, McClinton, and Ellington today

Save Blair and Hansbrough, so many of the "bigs" in this draft seem to be tweeners. I know the league's going that way, but just a bit upsetting in the purist's point of view.

Indy's worked out: Tyrell Biggs, Jeff Adrien, Alfred Aboya, Sam Young, Brett Winkelman (yes, that's a real person), Ahmad Nivins, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Budinger, KC Rivers, Marcus Landry, James Johnson, Luke Zeller (Hoosier state shoutout I guess). Can't find the list of upcoming workouts but I know Maynor and T-Will are on it. Were at the Eurocamp as well, assumedly looking at Jennings.
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Old 06-10-2009, 01:38 PM   #78
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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Save Blair and Hansbrough, so many of the "bigs" in this draft seem to be tweeners. I know the league's going that way, but just a bit upsetting in the purist's point of view.

Indy's worked out: Tyrell Biggs, Jeff Adrien, Alfred Aboya, Sam Young, Brett Winkelman (yes, that's a real person), Ahmad Nivins, Taj Gibson, DeMarre Carroll, Budinger, KC Rivers, Marcus Landry, James Johnson, Luke Zeller (Hoosier state shoutout I guess). Can't find the list of upcoming workouts but I know Maynor and T-Will are on it. Were at the Eurocamp as well, assumedly looking at Jennings.
I'm a big Nivins fan (though I hate St. Joe's) and think he has a spot in this league. He's freakin huge, Dwight Howard's size but no where near the athleticism. Great conditioning though, played every minute of every game pretty much and if he was more assertive would have been a first round pick. He'll probably be my next post.


edit: I found this from when the Pacers worked him out.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:00 PM   #79
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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I'm a big Nivins fan (though I hate St. Joe's) and think he has a spot in this league. He's freakin huge, Dwight Howard's size but no where near the athleticism. Great conditioning though, played every minute of every game pretty much and if he was more assertive would have been a first round pick. He'll probably be my next post.


edit: I found this from when the Pacers worked him out.

Nice, I'll look forward to it. Think he'll be there at #52? We all know this draft is weak on elite talent, but there's value all over the place. Looks to be a pretty strong 2nd round class. I really expect Indy to be a big mover on draft day. I expect Ford to be moved, maybe in combination with #13 to move down and acquire a real PF.
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Old 06-10-2009, 02:40 PM   #80
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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I'm a big Nivins fan (though I hate St. Joe's) and think he has a spot in this league. He's freakin huge, Dwight Howard's size but no where near the athleticism. Great conditioning though, played every minute of every game pretty much and if he was more assertive would have been a first round pick. He'll probably be my next post.


edit: I found this from when the Pacers worked him out.

yeah, i really like nivins game as well. hes got an nba ready body already and i think hes got a lot of potential down the line as pick and pop guy in the mold of carlos boozer/brandon bass.

excuse the poor punctuation, im writing this from my blackberry
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Old 06-10-2009, 08:36 PM   #81
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Ahmad Nivins, PF, St. Joseph's University

Nivins is a very big body with a wide frame who takes up a lot of space in the paint. He's listed at 6'9” 242 lbs but that needs a bit of an update. He's grown taller and I'd say he's up around 255 lbs by now, just a large man with a Dwight Howard type body. Has a very NBA-ready body. He left SJU as one of the top players in history, ranking 1st in FG%, 3rd in scoring, and 6th in rebounding. He had a senior season in which he was the A-10 player of the year ahead of other draft candidates Derrick Brown, Dionte Christmas, BJ Raymond, and Aaron Jackson. Anybody looking to point to how he was in the A-10 and that helped his stats can look to his competition vs. tournament teams; 14 pts/13 rbs/2 blks/1 stl @ Dexter Pittman and Texas, 16 pts/8 rebs/2 blks @ Villanova, 12 pts/13 rebs/1 stl/1 blk @ Dayton, 21 pts/6 rebs/1 blk vs. Temple, 17 pts/16 rebs/1 stl @ Temple, 21 pts/14 rebs/5 stls @ Temple, and 24 pts/8 rebs/1 blk vs. Xavier. (yes, they played Temple 3 times) Being a 4-year player has helped Ahmad grow into an NBA prospect as he wasn't assumed to be before. Very humble kid.

Nivins has a great skill set for a big man. He's worked extremely hard on his post moves and now has a great jump hook which is impossible to block because of the big body mass he has. Has great footwork in back to the basket situations. In fact, I can't think of a big in the draft with better post footwork. Hook shots over both his left and right shoulder, short turnaround jumpers from 10 feet in, and excellent drop step power moves are all a part of his game. He's got great touch from 15 feet and his jumpshot rarely misses. Could be a good pick n' pop player. He's very smart with his choice of shots and rarely takes a forced shot or bonehead shot. You can see that in his high FG% which has never dipped below 61%. The only problem is he doesn't shoot it enough which I'll get to later.

Ahmad has a chance to be a good rebounder at the NBA level. He's very strong and his body is so huge and takes up so much space. He's got very long arms and broad shoulders and he's a tough box out. If he was an NBA starter he would be a 9+ rebound player given the minutes. His strength is offensive rebounding and he's second only to DeJuan Blair in that department, though that doesn't mean he's in Blair's level at this. Doesn't project to be a great shot blocker at the next level because he doesn't get off the ground quick enough, but does have great length to where he will block a few. Could be a valuable post defender because of his size/strength/length.

What held Nivins back a little was his aggressiveness. His averages of 39.3 mpg|19.2 ppg|11.8 rpg|1.8 bpg|61.2 fg% are very impressive but the stat that stands out is that he only averaged 10.4 shot attempts per game. In past years he had taken a back seat to Pat Calathes as far as scoring, and after Pat's graduation Ahmad had the load on him. It was almost as if he was unaware of just how good of a player he was. It's shocking that a conference player of the year could be 3rd on his own team in shot attempts.

Also holding him back will be his athleticism. Though he has incredible conditioning and can get up in down the floor terrific for a player his size, he lacks in moving side to side and could have trouble defending the “new” NBA PF off the dribble (those Josh Smith types). He also doesn't have great hops or explosion off the ground. Overall he could be a decent role player in the NBA, somebody to come in and provide solid rebounding ability along with a good offensive post presence. I've heard that the SA Spurs, who own the 53rd pick in the draft, have shown interest.

NBA comparison: A bigger, stronger Alan Henderson
Stock: 40th-Undrafted
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:17 PM   #82
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

Playing 39+ minutes a game and only averaging 2.2 fouls, is pretty impressive. What's up with 2.7 TOs while, what looks like, not touching the ball a ton on offense? Struggle with the double team?
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Old 06-10-2009, 10:26 PM   #83
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

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Playing 39+ minutes a game and only averaging 2.2 fouls, is pretty impressive. What's up with 2.7 TOs while, what looks like, not touching the ball a ton on offense? Struggle with the double team?
Yes, struggles with the double team. But wouldn't expect him to be double teamed in the NBA anyway. And the limited fouls comes from his stance. When a player goes up for a shot he rarely jumps but rather sticks his arms straight up (I mentioned how long his arms are) and makes it a difficult shot for them. Rarely bites on pump fakes and keeps his feet grounded.




You see a lot of that stance from Ahmad. If he was more assertive he could have been a 24 point guy as a senior. What I didn't mention is that he does a good job of getting to the free throw line, and knocks them down with regularity.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:54 AM   #84
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willams is a good athlete but is not consistent he is probably not a lottery pick in the draft he is a mid first rounder
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Old 06-12-2009, 02:18 PM   #85
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Earl Clark, F, Louisville


Clark is one of the most versatile players, along with James Johnson, in the '09 draft. Another guy who can become just a complete stat stuffer giving you points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. I've always wondered...how can a guy gain nearly 2 inches when he puts on shoes? Was Clark wearing some Spice Girls platforms to the combine? Either way, Clark jumps from a solid 6'8.5 to 6'10 1/2 when he sticks on the sneaks. Though I believe he's better suited in the NBA as a SF, he'll need to muscle up if he wants to play any PF in the league.

Clark's jump shot has improved each of his 3 seasons at Louisville and there's no reason to believe it can't continue to do so. One of his best moves which is tough to guard is his midrange pull up jumper off the dribble, something very rare you see from a guy standing 6'10. Has a very high release point that will be near impossible to block and has very similar form to Rashard Lewis' jumpshot. Having Lewis' range seems highly doubtful but Clark seems like a guy who could be an average spot up shooter in the league. If he could ever extend that off the dribble jumper out to the NBA line a la Tracy McGrady he could be something special.

Has great quickness and dribbling ability for a guy his size. This is one of the reasons why I believe, with an improved jumpshot, he projects to be a SF more so than a PF in the NBA. He has the size/length/speed to guard small forwards at the next level and the skill set of one. If you choose to guard him with a slower defender he can get around them with ease and has good finishing ability at the bucket because of his size. I really question whether he can play PF because he lacks any kind of back to the basket scoring ability. Very limited as far as post moves and is much more comfortable facing up.

Defensively he has the quickness to guard NBA small forwards. He has great length and great timing to block shots around the rim though most of his blocks come on the ball rather than from the weak side. Unlike what I wrote about Blair, Clark is the type that will be able to guard face up type PF's (the LaMarcus Aldridge type). He'll struggle to cover big, strong power forwards with great back to the basket games such as an Al Jefferson.

I'd like to see Clark end up with a team like New Jersey who doesn't have any long term player currently who can play as a starting forward. A trio of Devin Harris, Brook Lopez, and Earl Clark is a good young core to build on and a with a versatile player like Clark who can play inside outside it'd be fun to watch Lopez/Clark up front together for certain periods. It seems hard to get a good grasp on Louisville players and how they project in the NBA. Their system somehow finds a way to hide many individual talents. I still believe Clark is very talented and should go somewhere between 10 and 15.

Stock: 7-19
Best Fits: New Jersey (11), Phoenix (14), Chicago (16)
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Old 06-12-2009, 03:17 PM   #86
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

I'm sure you know that Clark (along with Blair) is my favourite player in this draft, so I was really looking forward to this.

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Originally Posted by Posterize246
Earl Clark, F, Louisville


Clark is one of the most versatile players, along with James Johnson, in the '09 draft. Another guy who can become just a complete stat stuffer giving you points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. I've always wondered...how can a guy gain nearly 2 inches when he puts on shoes? Was Clark wearing some Spice Girls platforms to the combine? Either way, Clark jumps from a solid 6'8.5 to 6'10 1/2 when he sticks on the sneaks. Though I believe he's better suited in the NBA as a SF, he'll need to muscle up if he wants to play any PF in the league.
I agree. He will need to gain some muscle to be able to play the PF position, but look at someone like 'Shard Lewis. He's got a similar build to Clark and does fine, though he does sometimes struggle defensively against the bigger PF's. I think Clark should wait a few years, before he gains some weight to play the 4. He should use his athleticism whilst he's got it. Although, I don't think 10 or so lbs would hurt his game at all.

Quote:
Clark's jump shot has improved each of his 3 seasons at Louisville and there's no reason to believe it can't continue to do so. One of his best moves which is tough to guard is his midrange pull up jumper off the dribble, something very rare you see from a guy standing 6'10. Has a very high release point that will be near impossible to block and has very similar form to Rashard Lewis' jumpshot. Having Lewis' range seems highly doubtful but Clark seems like a guy who could be an average spot up shooter in the league. If he could ever extend that off the dribble jumper out to the NBA line a la Tracy McGrady he could be something special.
Lewis and Clark have similar mechanics and similar foot placement on shots, but have different release points. Clark fully extands his arm and releases way above his head, whereas Lewis' release isn't as high and he doesn't get as much extension as Clark does.

Quote:
Has great quickness and dribbling ability for a guy his size. This is one of the reasons why I believe, with an improved jumpshot, he projects to be a SF more so than a PF in the NBA. He has the size/length/speed to guard small forwards at the next level and the skill set of one. If you choose to guard him with a slower defender he can get around them with ease and has good finishing ability at the bucket because of his size. I really question whether he can play PF because he lacks any kind of back to the basket scoring ability. Very limited as far as post moves and is much more comfortable facing up.
For a 6'10 guy, Clark has fantastic athleticism. If he can further develop his 3 point shooting, he'll have a weapon that he can use against any defender. He would be able to get by the slower defenders, post up and shoot over the smaller players.

He hasn't yet developed a nice post up game, but he does have a couple of nice moves that he can use. His low post fade away is something that he can use well, when he uses it. But with his height and length, I often question why he has to fade away on any shot. Even in the NBA, he should have no problem getting his shot off.

Quote:
Defensively he has the quickness to guard NBA small forwards. He has great length and great timing to block shots around the rim though most of his blocks come on the ball rather than from the weak side. Unlike what I wrote about Blair, Clark is the type that will be able to guard face up type PF's (the LaMarcus Aldridge type). He'll struggle to cover big, strong power forwards with great back to the basket games such as an Al Jefferson.

Completely agree, not much else to add here. However, due to his gangly arms, I suspect he might be able to irritate low post players by poking at the ball.

Quote:
I'd like to see Clark end up with a team like New Jersey who doesn't have any long term player currently who can play as a starting forward. A trio of Devin Harris, Brook Lopez, and Earl Clark is a good young core to build on and a with a versatile player like Clark who can play inside outside it'd be fun to watch Lopez/Clark up front together for certain periods. It seems hard to get a good grasp on Louisville players and how they project in the NBA. Their system somehow finds a way to hide many individual talents. I still believe Clark is very talented and should go somewhere between 10 and 15.
Agreed. Clark needs to be in a system where he is going to get more than enough playing time. He also needs to be on a team that likes to get out and run, so he can fully utilise his athleticism.

Quote:
Stock: 7-19
Best Fits: New Jersey (11), Phoenix (14), Chicago (16)
Personally, I don't think he should go any lower than 12.

Overall, great write up. Rep is on the way.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:23 PM   #87
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I talked a lot about Steph Curry and Eric Maynor having great floaters in the lane, and I believe Tony Parker is the best in the league at that shot. But damn after watching these playoffs Rafer Alston is damn good at it.
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Old 06-14-2009, 09:45 PM   #88
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Hasheem Thabeet, C, UConn

Was an instant prospect the moment he stepped onto the Uconn campus simply because of his great size. Measured an outstanding 7' 2.5” at the draft with a 7'6 wingspan and a crazy 9'5” standing reach. I'm curious why Hasheem didn't participate in the lane agility, bench rep, court sprint, and the vertical tests. I doubt anyone would really care too much about his vertical leap and it's pretty well known that he can run for how tall he is, but the bench rep would have been interesting. Thabeet's strength is one of his question marks. A guy like Dwight Howard could sneeze and Thabeet would fall over right now. I honestly don't know how much weight he should gain (he's 267). I would worry more about just getting stronger overall then his actual weight.

Hasheem's offensive repertoire is really quite limited to offensive put backs, dunks under the basket, and alley oops at this point. I never expect him to be an offensive guy but he will need to develop at least 1 move in the post because every guy will get the ball with the shot clock running down at some point, whether by design or not. Mutombo was able to develop a sweeping hook coming across the paint. It'd be great to see Hasheem develop the same move. Something that's good about Thabeet is that even though he is so tall he runs the floor and has great mobility. He also needs to become more aggressive around the rim, not settling for soft layups but throwing down a dunk at any chance given. The one thing I do give Thabeet is he is excellent at sealing his man and getting inside position. Playing with a point guard who knows the art of the post-entry pass will be a help to him. Any team drafting Thabeet should expect to have some headaches offensively, but they should also not be expecting to get a guy who will be known as an offensive player. How he progresses will be up to his coaching and work ethic.

Everybody knows Thabeet's biggest strength is his ability to guard the rim. I would expect him to be no less than a 2.5 block per game guy in the league (only 2 of them in the league last season) with the capability of getting over 3 a game someday if he's given the minutes. Can literally block anything. Jumpshots, layups, dunk attempts, on his own man, from the weak side, anything. His post defense, though he makes up for it with the blocked/altered shot, is weak because of his strength. He's easy to back down in the paint and has trouble standing his ground. It's tough for the offensive player to get off their shot once they do back them down but it's a worry you don't want to have. Thabeet can be an active rebounder and with improved strength should be a double digit rebounder.

True centers are extremely hard to find nowadays. Especially a guy who's a 7 footer with supreme blocking skills. If Thabeet can become a 12 point/10 rebound/3 block guy shooting 50%+ he proves his worth as a top 5 pick because those guys are hard to find. I love the confidence that Thabeet shows, sometimes even to the point where it becomes arrogant, but I like it. He believes in what he can do and he wants his opponent to know it. It's the same swagger that Dikembe had when he did the finger wag after his blocks. If he wants to be a top defender in the league he's capable.

I'd like to see him drafted by the Thunder, Wizards, or the T'Wolves. Minnesota passed on a chance to take Brooke Lopez last year instead taking Mayo and trading for Love. If he somehow falls to #6 which is possible, Minnesota could have a very strong, young frontcourt of Al Jefferson/Hasheem Thabeet/Kevin Love. Thabeet would be a nice complementary player to Jefferson's bullish offensive game. Minnesota ranked 28th in the league in blocked shots last season with nobody scared of attacking the basket with Jefferson/Love. That trio would be a good mix of offense/defense/rebounding. If they feel they can't get him at 6 I wouldn't be surprised to see them move up for him.

Stock: 2nd-6th
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Old 06-15-2009, 10:31 PM   #89
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any specific guy I should do next?
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Old 06-20-2009, 12:29 PM   #90
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Default Re: Posterize's Pro Prospects

I've never been high on Eric Maynor and have no real explanation for it. Every time I watch him all I think is "marginal prospect, not worth the time" and I keep it moving. I hope he can prove me wrong.

With Earl Clark my biggest complaint is he has no "big dawg" in him. Clark is perfectly content with fitting in and playing a role. While that attitude guarantees he will be, at worst, a long time productive role player (think Derrick McKey and Detlef Schrempf) or also guarantees he will never reach his full potential (a Dirk Nowitzki type who shoot over or goes past every defender you place on him).


Edit: Dan Issel might be a better comparison of what I think Clark's full potential could be.

Last edited by Da KO King : 06-20-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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