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Old 06-01-2009, 01:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
And John Wall has his own legal and academic issues.
Wall didnt have a legal issue until the end of his recruitment basically.
Wall does not have any academic issues, He had a 2.6 GPA during HS which he improved during his Senior year to earn a scholarship from Coach K at Duke.

Quote:
There's nothing I'm "failing to understand" here, by the way, I'm just not going to slobber over a kid whose arrogance, legal troubles and academic troubles pile up way higher than his basketball abilities.
Legal troubles?
Academic troubles?

Outside of his sexual assault case where is any of that coming from?


Quote:
Do you not, by the way, feel a little silly constantly referencing him as "BR"? (And yes, I know what it stands for. Which is why you should feel silly, since he appears fairly unready for college.)
How is he unready for college when compared to about 1/3 of HS seniors throughout the country?

Stephenson's situation is no different outside of his criminal case later in June, Its just an example of how you need to have your college set in place early on instead of waiting too late to commit to what you're going to do the following school year whether working, Armed Forces or going to college.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:26 PM   #17
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Once again, TheGame414 did you even watch Lance in HS?
Do you even understand NYC HS Basketball?


Where are you going off on this belief that BR is overrated, overhyped, etc?
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:26 PM   #18
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Kareem played Catholic League, and Lance has more than 900 more points than him in HS.
Any way you choose to frame an argument that leads to the conclusion that Lance Stephenson was a better high school player than Lew Alcindor is flat-out incorrect. Alcindor is (rightly) regarded as either the best or second-best high school player ever.

Not in New York, in the entire country.

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Felipe, Telfair, and Marbury did not accomplish as much individually as BR did in HS.

BR was an impact player from day 1 as a HS freshman.
So were Lopez, Telfair and Marbury. Had there ever been a high schooler as hyped as Lopez?



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Why are you comparing New York HS basketball to Illinois HS basketball to prove a point?
Because it's a fair comparison. Along with New York, California, and Texas, Illinois is one of the top high school basketball states with an endless list of NBA players and college stars in its own right.

When Sergio and Marcus were leading Manual to their second of four straight state titles- as sophomores, no less- Kevin Garnett and Ronnie Fields were getting knocked out of the state tournament in the quarterfinals that same year, by the team Manual would eventually beat for the title.

Does that make Sergio and Marcus better high school players than Kevin Garnett and Ronnie Fields?

Quote:
Stephenson's legacy at the HS level in New York is uncomparable, so keep on trying.
His accomplishments are outstanding, but they don't automatically make him the best high school player.

Just for the hell of it, one more: Kenny Anderson.

I can keep going.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:34 PM   #19
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

I live in the NYC area and plenty of people who've seen a lot of NYC basketball including Stephenson play would claim that Lance was not better than Marbury, Telfair, Odom, etc.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:38 PM   #20
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Once again, TheGame414 did you even watch Lance in HS?
Do you even understand NYC HS Basketball?
I don't have to be familiar with every intricacy, every strength and foible, of New York's high school basketball scene to know Lance Stephenson isn't the best high school player ever in New York. For your own benefit, please know that it's a logical fallacy to attack your opponents' credentials in lieu of debating the topic at hand. It has nothing to do with the subject matter, plus it shows that you don't feel strongly enough about the merit of your own argument.

For the record, as an avid basketball fan that follows the sport at every level, yes, I know a thing or two about New York hoops, just as I do about Indiana high school ball, Texas high school ball, etc.

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Where are you going off on this belief that BR is overrated, overhyped, etc?
When did I ever say Lance- see, I'm an adult, so I'm not going to refer to a teenage boy by a pompous, undeserved nickname- was overrated?

I think when Rivals ranks him as the 11th-best player in the class, that's fair. I think ESPN Scouts, Inc. ranking him as the 12th-best player is fair. I think Scouts ranking him as the 8th-best player is fair. That's a fair range for him to be ranked.

But you're comparing him to some guys considered among the best high school players ever. I don't need to intimately follow every aspect of New York hoops to know that.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
Any way you choose to frame an argument that leads to the conclusion that Lance Stephenson was a better high school player than Lew Alcindor is flat-out incorrect. Alcindor is (rightly) regarded as either the best or second-best high school player ever.


Not in New York, in the entire country.
OK.Sure.
Im sure Jordan, Wilt, Magic, and Bird are also referred to as the top high school basketball players ever.

Quote:
So were Lopez, Telfair and Marbury. Had there ever been a high schooler as hyped as Lopez?
Felipe Lopez btw is my All-Time favorite player, but Lopez' accomplishments are not on par with what BR has accomplished as a HS player.

TG, Its not even an argument regarding Lopez, Telfair, and Marbury. Lance broke all of their scoring records and accomplished more team success than each of them did.



Quote:
Because it's a fair comparison. Along with New York, California, and Texas, Illinois is one of the top high school basketball states with an endless list of NBA players and college stars in its own right.

When Sergio and Marcus were leading Manual to their second of four straight state titles- as sophomores, no less- Kevin Garnett and Ronnie Fields were getting knocked out of the state tournament in the quarterfinals that same year, by the team Manual would eventually beat for the title.

Does that make Sergio and Marcus better high school players than Kevin Garnett and Ronnie Fields?
That has nothing to do with this, its completely irrelevant.

Sergio & Marcus were never on the level of player that Stephenson is, Im struggling to even take this seriously because BR is clearly one of the Top 3 HS basketball players in the class of 2009, while Sergio & Marcus were....




Quote:
His accomplishments are outstanding, but they don't automatically make him the best high school player.

Just for the hell of it, one more: Kenny Anderson.

I can keep going.

Seriously what the **** are you judging this on?

How well of a NBA player you think Lance can become and ranking NBA players with impressive HS careers over Lance because it just seems right.

At this point, in terms of NY HS Basketball there has never been a player with more points, more consecutive PSAL Championships, or more dominating on the court when he played than Lance Stephenson.

You can keep bringing up names of every NBA player you google from NYC and none of them did what BR did as a HS player espescially considering he did it from Day 1.

Its getting to the point now where I'm starting to think you just flat out dont like Lance Stephenson as a player, think hes overrated, overhyped, etc.
Can we just get this confirmed so I can stop wasting my time arguing with a biased person with a biased agenda.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:46 PM   #22
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
I live in the NYC area and plenty of people who've seen a lot of NYC basketball including Stephenson play would claim that Lance was not better than Marbury, Telfair, Odom, etc.
Who?

And where do you live in NYC?

Im in Harlem every summer for a month or two visiting family & friends, and I've been to Coney Island before to hoop numerous times.

Unless you are around actual people who follow NYC HS basketball instead of just onlookers going off of looking at NBA rosters you would realize that Telfair is definetly Top 5 but BR is 95% of the time ranked #1.

Odom didn't even play city ball.
He didnt even play in the Rucker until after he reached the NBA.
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Old 06-01-2009, 01:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
I don't have to be familiar with every intricacy, every strength and foible, of New York's high school basketball scene to know Lance Stephenson isn't the best high school player ever in New York. For your own benefit, please know that it's a logical fallacy to attack your opponents' credentials in lieu of debating the topic at hand. It has nothing to do with the subject matter, plus it shows that you don't feel strongly enough about the merit of your own argument.

For the record, as an avid basketball fan that follows the sport at every level, yes, I know a thing or two about New York hoops, just as I do about Indiana high school ball, Texas high school ball, etc.
I do as well.


Quote:
When did I ever say Lance- see, I'm an adult, so I'm not going to refer to a teenage boy by a pompous, undeserved nickname- was overrated?

I think when Rivals ranks him as the 11th-best player in the class, that's fair. I think ESPN Scouts, Inc. ranking him as the 12th-best player is fair. I think Scouts ranking him as the 8th-best player is fair. That's a fair range for him to be ranked.

But you're comparing him to some guys considered among the best high school players ever. I don't need to intimately follow every aspect of New York hoops to know that.
Once again it is impossible to judge the greatest HS basketball players of All Time, its actually pointless for you to even use that as a measuring stick.

When was Marbury, Telfair, or Kenny ever listed among the best HS basketball players ever?

The point of ranking HS players is based on their talent but also on their accomplishments in the HS ranks.

Lance has scored more points than Marbury, Telfair, and Kenny as HS basketball players.
Lance has won 4 PSAL Championships which is more than Marbury, Telfair, and Kenny won.


Im not sure if you're failing to grasp this idea that it takes having more individual success and team success over another player to rank him higher in terms of HS basketball for a City, State, etc.

This isnt the NBA or college for that matter.

You have 4 years, If you break the records, If you win more Championships then you have outdone the previous Best player.

Kenny was considered the Greatest NYC HS basketball player until Telfair, Telfair broke his records and won more championships(3) than Kenny.

Lance came and broke Telfair's records and won more championships(4) than Bassie.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Who?

And where do you live in NYC?

Im in Harlem every summer for a month or two visiting family & friends, and I've been to Coney Island before to hoop numerous times.

Unless you are around actual people who follow NYC HS basketball instead of just onlookers going off of looking at NBA rosters you would realize that Telfair is definetly Top 5 but BR is 95% of the time ranked #1.

Odom didn't even play city ball.
He didnt even play in the Rucker until after he reached the NBA.

Odom is considered a NYC baller regardless and himself claims to be one whether or not he played in the city circuit or not. I lived in this area all my life, played ball in Jersey, and know enough people who I respect and trust their opinion. Wow, you go to Harlem once a summer, that's great for you. Hope you have fun there, but it doesn't mean jack ****. I visit Chicago a few times a year, but don't start acting like I know everything there is about their basketball network and circuits. In my time here, I've met more than enough people who know their way around and seen plenty of players play and know their **** and I'm going to take them on their word rather than guy who has a track record of putting Keith Brumbaugh in the same category as Carmelo Anthony, Tyler Hansbrough as a top 5 draft pick, Aaron Jackson as the nation's best point guard.

At the end of the day, you just don't have a good record of gauging and understanding talent. So forgive me if I'm going to call "bull****" here.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:14 PM   #25
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
Odom is considered a NYC baller regardless and himself claims to be one whether or not he played in the city circuit or not. I lived in this area all my life, played ball in Jersey, and know enough people who I respect and trust their opinion. Wow, you go to Harlem once a summer, that's great for you. Hope you have fun there, but it doesn't mean jack ****.
I am from New York, lived in New York for a large portion of my life.
The only time I left was to go High School, where I would stay with my father.

I balled in New Jersey as well.

But once again who are these people you speak of, are you just assuming thats what they would say because I know if not as many or more people in the City ball loop than you who I have heard claim BR is #1.

Quote:
I visit Chicago a few times a year, but don't start acting like I know everything there is about their basketball network and circuits. In my time here, I've met more than enough people who know their way around and seen plenty of players play and know their **** and I'm going to take them on their word rather than guy who has a track record of putting Keith Brumbaugh in the same category as Carmelo Anthony, Tyler Hansbrough as a top 5 draft pick, Aaron Jackson as the nation's best point guard.

At the end of the day, you just don't have a good record of gauging and understanding talent. So forgive me if I'm going to call "bull****" here.
Thank You.

You dont have to take my word on anything, and Im actually getting tired discussing those topics you referenced to feel as if my word is illegitimate when discussing anything basketball related, simply just because you need an excuse for not actually knowing what you're talking about in this case instead of chiming in with mouth farts about how Lamar Odom is ranked higher than Lance. Its comical but I'll give you a pass for it because I Know you dont know what the **** you're talking about in this situation.

You're credibility went out the window right after you put Marbury over BR, that right there isnt even debatable unless you're using his Pro success as a measure over BR.

But once again the Keith Brumbaugh joke has worn old, I stick to exactly what I claimed about him if he ever got a chance in the NBA and to my knowledge I never compared him ever to Carmelo Anthony, if thats your perception of me as an evaluator so be it.

If you want to call bull**** on my opinions or credibility judging talent or telling you the facts about NYC HS basketball which you clearly dont understand than I suggest you put me on Ignore.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Know how? Cause I won't concede to a person who has a record of being caught up in the moment and being wrong consistently time and time again? I don't care who you know and what you've heard, because people have a right to be skeptical of your opinion. You've been wrong more than you have been right. It's one of the few consistent things on this board. There was year where you claimed DJ Augustin, JaVale McGee, Tyler Hansbrough, and Donte Green as top 5 draft picks and unless Tyler is proven to be Superman none your claims would have come close to happening. You like to take unpopular sides and argue for them and while sometimes I admire you for that, after awhile it's comical. So I have no problem believing my guys over yours. Especially since they have a track record of being right while you.. still believe Aaron Jackson is a top player in this year's draft.
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Old 06-01-2009, 02:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by wang4three
Know how? Cause I won't concede to a person who has a record of being caught up in the moment and being wrong consistently time and time again?
Wrong on what?
Because I simply judge talent and am willing to give a player praise if hes not receiving any from most so-called experts although hes a very good player.
Taking Aaron Jackson in a ISH Mock Draft....Really? So that means Im a bumbling idiot because I feel he could be a better Pro than Flynn, Maynor, etc.




Quote:
I don't care who you know and what you've heard, because people have a right to be skeptical of your opinion.
Sure.
Quote:
You've been wrong more than you have been right. It's one of the few consistent things on this board. There was year where you claimed DJ Augustin, JaVale McGee, Tyler Hansbrough, and Donte Green as top 5 draft picks and unless Tyler is proven to be Superman none your claims would have come close to happening.
I said DJ Augustin should be a Top 5 Pick, considering how good of a PG he was on the college level and how there were players with less talent at PG being ranked above him.

Specifically Russell Westbrook in 08.

Does that make me somehow right that Jrue Holiday should be a Top 5 Pick because others rank him in the Top 5 on potential, when clearly he isnt even one of the 15 best players available.

Am I wrong for considering Donte Greene a Top 5 pick back in like December of 07' where he was consistently ranked among the Top 5 picks on most Mocks before he went on a downward spiral through the 2nd half of the season to the pre-draft workouts.


Am I wrong for creating a talent evaluation of Javale McGee as if the Minnesota T'Wolves had the #1 pick?
Everything I said about him then is true, or its believed now about his potential as a NBA player while most people didnt even know who the **** he was until the pre draft workouts.

Am I wrong for wondering why Tyler Hansbrough, in the context of college and individual success, would not be a Top 5 Pick?
He has a game that translates to the NBA, but its not valued due to him not having elite athletic ability, or the potential for him to be developed for a year or 2 as a player.


Quote:
You like to take unpopular sides and argue for them and while sometimes I admire you for that, after awhile it's comical. So I have no problem believing my guys over yours.
Your guys either dont exist or clearly dont know what they are talking about, you actually have Marbury over BR and then claimed Lamar Odom is over BR which is so comical from my point of view thats its out of pure respect for you on other topics I didnt drop this awhile ago.

Quote:
Especially since they have a track record of being right while you.. still believe Aaron Jackson is a top player in this year's draft.
Never once said that.

I like Aaron Jackson as a PG but he is definetly not in the Top 15 or Top 20 of players in this draft, All I said was that Jackson as a PG is better than Flynn & Maynor or anyone else they think will play PG in the NBA after Rubio & Jennings.

Last edited by Interminator : 06-01-2009 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 06-01-2009, 03:01 PM   #28
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Im sure a SEC school will end up taking him
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Old 06-01-2009, 03:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Lance is going to have a rude awakening once he gets to the NBA. If he gets to the NBA. Teams will not take his ****, even if he is that good, which he isn't.

And he should damn well choose a school like NOW, or else go the **** to Europe (I think he seriously might be considering this, otherwise why wait this long). And his father needs to **** off.

I've seriously never heard of a circus act like this kid, from what I've seen he isn't even a lottery type talent, yet he seems to have more publicized ego and arrogance than any HS recruit in recent memory. Hopefully he just flames out ala Derrick Caracter, a similar idiot.

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Old 06-01-2009, 03:19 PM   #30
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Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by dab0yech0
Im sure a SEC school will end up taking him
Im surprised none were linked with Lance.

Where in the hell is South Carolina at in Lance's recruitment?
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