Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Draft Forum

NBA Draft Forum NBA Draft message board - nba draft forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-01-2009, 04:38 PM   #46
Grinder
.
 
Grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,359
Grinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGame414
No, they aren't. But Alcindor is.


And Michael Jordan's college accomplishments aren't on par with Tyler Hansbrough's, by your way of defining accomplishment. The question is who the better player was, and team accomplishments aren't always the best definition of that.

If it's so clear that Stephenson- please, quit calling him "BR," you sound like a jackass- is one of the top three players in '09, then why doesn't one single scouting service of note rank him as such? Only one had him ranked higher than 4th before his stock dropped with the postseason re-rankings.

Something being clear to fanboy cheerleaders and something being clear to level-headed people with strong basketball sensibilities remain, of course, two different things.

And obviously Stephenson is a better player than Sergio McClain or Marcus Griffin. That's kind of my point. In terms of team success, Sergio and Marcus were Stephenson's equal, if not better: they won four state championships in one of the best states of high school basketball, and a national championship. Sergio and Marcus were each individually accomplished; Serg was Mr. Basketball and Marcus was a McDonald's All-American. (As an aside, the best player on the team obviously was Frank Williams, who was a year younger.)

So, again, a list of accomplishments that are team-oriented doesn't necessarily tell us who the better player was, or else- and I hate to use him as an example again, but it's another easy one- you have to say Tyler Hansbrough was a better college player than Tim Duncan.

In high school basketball, individual stats don't necessarily tell much of the story either, because so many factors can be mitigating in that regard to much greater degree than even college basketball, which has plenty of such mitigating factors itself.

What this comes down to, then, is simply deciding who was better at playing basketball. You're talking about a bunch of guys who were all highly accomplished teamwise and individually, to the point where it's almost a wash. I've never, before you and all your infinite wisdom came along, seen anyone put Stephenson ahead of Lopez, Anderson or Marbury in the canon of New York basketball, let alone LEW F-CKING ALCINDOR, THE GREATEST PLAYER IN THE HISTORY OF HIGH SCHOOL BASKETBALL.


I think you're overrating him. I don't think people with good basketball sensibilites are. He's considered one of the 15 best players in the nation, and he probably is. He's considered to have a massive attitude problem, which he pretty clearly does, along with being saddled by criminal and academic troubles.

I don't have an agenda, because there's nothing I'm trying to accomplish. I don't have a bias against him, and you'd be well-served by growing up and ditching this adolescent "anyone who doesn't adore my favorite player is a hater" line of thought. I'm fully capable of offering what I feel is an honest criticism about someone I don't have something personal against. Lance Stephenson never did anything to me, or to offend my basketball world, because a teenager with an attitude problem isn't exactly a new thing. I'm more than willing to see if he grows up, behaves himself and lets his talent shine in college and beyond, and I hope he does.

But right now, it's not hard to see why coaches would be- or, more likely, already have- shied away despite his immense talent. After all, guys with his kind of talent don't just get left off the USA team for no reason.

Even if I was trying to tear him down- I'm not; that's something I have no interest in- everything that could be said about him, most of it probably true, some of it perhaps not, already has been said.

Just time chime in, not hugely relevant but Clark Francis' Hoop Scoop recruiting service (used by a lot of D1 coaches) has Stephenson listed at #1 not including John Wall (they have a separate category for fifth year high schoolers).

I agree with most of what you're saying though, and there's no way Stephenson could easily average 20-25 points for a high major.
Grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 04:41 PM   #47
Interminator
Banned
 
Interminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,774
Interminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinder
Just time chime in, not hugely relevant but Clark Francis' Hoop Scoop recruiting service (used by a lot of D1 coaches) has Stephenson listed at #1 not including John Wall (they have a separate category for fifth year high schoolers).

I agree with most of what you're saying though, and there's no way Stephenson could easily average 20-25 points for a high major.
I never said Stephenson would average 20-25 PPG for a high major.

I dont think outside of Memphis, Arizona, & Maryland there are any high major schools actively recruiting him.
Interminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 04:45 PM   #48
Grinder
.
 
Grinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,359
Grinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterGrinder is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
I never said Stephenson would average 20-25 PPG for a high major.

I dont think outside of Memphis, Arizona, & Maryland there are any high major schools actively recruiting him.

Florida is actively recruiting him as well.

Arizona is no longer pursuing him.

Last edited by Grinder : 06-01-2009 at 04:49 PM.
Grinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 08:33 PM   #49
lukeridnour08
Decent playground baller
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
lukeridnour08 has decent reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
I just didnt feel like typing up extended responses to the other post and yours.

I dont agree with you at all, practically your an idiot, I know this because I actually remember you as a poster not sure where you blabbered idiocy over but I dont feel like looking for it.

Regarding Lance your claims are completely inaccurate, I mean you could've honestly looked at Youtube to avoid embarassing yourself the way you just did.

I responded to most of your claims, and the aspect of him being a below average athlete compared to NBA standards is so far false.

Lance lacks the explosiveness a prospect like John Wall has, but that doesn't mean hes not a good athlete.

Lance's game reminds me of Paul Pierce, of course Pierce polished his game and improved at Kansas but Lance & Pierce have an almost identical skillset and how they show their emotion on the court.

lulz at the fail in your posts.
lukeridnour08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 08:44 PM   #50
Interminator
Banned
 
Interminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,774
Interminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeridnour08
lulz at the fail in your posts.
Its no lulz in it.

Your life is a fail brah.
Interminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:36 PM   #51
lukeridnour08
Decent playground baller
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 395
lukeridnour08 has decent reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Its no lulz in it.

Your life is a fail brah.

My lifes a fail when you have 10000 posts on a internet message board???

ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
lukeridnour08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2009, 09:54 PM   #52
Snoop_Cat
Banned
 
Snoop_Cat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Johns Hopkins
Posts: 3,498
Snoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops posterSnoop_Cat is considered a brilliant InsideHoops poster
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Maryland could definitely use some star power to go back to the level they were a few years ago, no matter how much crap comes along with him.

I don't know much about him, but according to Interminator, a 6'4''/5'' SF is not going to fly in the college game, let alone the NBA

****, come to Johns Hopkins, he could probably move us up from a D3 school to a D1. (Just kidding )
Snoop_Cat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 05:40 AM   #53
unbreakable
National High School Star
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: rucker park
Posts: 2,396
unbreakable posts stuff that is definitely making some people angryunbreakable posts stuff that is definitely making some people angry
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Im with Interminator.. Lance Stephenson might be the greatest NYC baller of all time based on his points, state championships, etc...

Nobody is saying he's the "best".. but he might be the greatest. And if you dont know the difference between being the best and being the greatest, then you dont know the difference between Wilt/Kareem/Duncan and Jordan.

edit: Seriously Game.. Lopez and Marbury over Lance's HS career?
unbreakable is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 08:47 AM   #54
STelfair31
National High School Star
 
STelfair31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ISH'S FINEST
Posts: 2,205
STelfair31 has decent reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

you can't forget about Bassy in terms of high school. Was Stephenson charged with sexual assault?
STelfair31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 11:26 AM   #55
A.M.G.
Dr. Chim Richalds
 
A.M.G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: plane of pure scrumtrulesence
Posts: 3,595
A.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Lance gets to the NBA unless he suffers a debilitating injury or commits a serious crime.


They've already ruled out Europe, and Lance's father has done his best to shield Lance away from outsiders who could ruin him.
He promoted Lance better than I can remember of a player being promoted, He brought him down to the Rucker when he was 12 or 13.


Nobody in 2010 is a surefire lottery type talent until 3/4 through the season.

What makes you think hes an arrogant, egotistical person?
I've been following this kid for years(no stalking), at worst he has the speech of 13 year old.

Derrick Caracter is a sad story, he began to flame out in HS and it continued on to Louisville.
Latest I've heard is hes working this summer to play for UTEP later this year.
Commits a serious crime? Isn't he being charged with sexual assault?

And my main point was that if he thinks he is going to be a #1 option in the NBA, that the team is going to revolve around him, that he is going to start and be ball-dominant, that his dad is going to be able to tell an NBA team what to do, he has a rude awakening coming. Because at this point I don't even see him as a starter. And if he *****es and complains about it or plays stupid when he does get minutes, he'll find himself struggling to stay in the league, much like Gerald Green.

Well it is a good thing for him that he was smart enough not to go to Europe. But then that begs the question of why hasn't the dolt picked a school yet?

Why does a player need "promotion", that's what I want to ask. this is the main question of my post. Isn't playing well promotion enough, isn't demonstrating your talent promotion enough for dozens of other top 2009 recruits, including several better than Stephenson? Why is it a good thing that his father has tried obsessively to control his career and generate hype, and has meddled in his affairs to the extent that the kid's amatuer status is coming into question? Seriously, this New York hype machine hasn't propelled many players into the NBA that I can remember.

No amount of high school hype is going to disguise how well he plays for the next couple years in college, so he better just pick a damn school before none of them want him, and play ball. If he PLAYS well, he'll get into the NBA. It doesn't matter what his nickname is or what he did in HS or how great and important he thinks he is, NBA scouts will judge him based on how he performs, and actually his prima donna attitude will probably lower his stock. All this talk from people like you isn't impressing anyone, because frankly it's just highschool.



Also, good to hear that Derrick Caracter will get a degree at least. If the ****ing fool had lost weight and worked hard on his game he probably could have been a pro, but he's lazy and stupid, so what are you going to do?
A.M.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 01:42 PM   #56
Interminator
Banned
 
Interminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,774
Interminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G.
Commits a serious crime? Isn't he being charged with sexual assault?
Hes charged with slapping a girls butt that he was playing with, him & 2 of his teammates were playing with her and she felt violated.


Quote:
And my main point was that if he thinks he is going to be a #1 option in the NBA, that the team is going to revolve around him, that he is going to start and be ball-dominant, that his dad is going to be able to tell an NBA team what to do, he has a rude awakening coming. Because at this point I don't even see him as a starter. And if he *****es and complains about it or plays stupid when he does get minutes, he'll find himself struggling to stay in the league, much like Gerald Green.
We have to see how well he does in college, but I am not truly sure about where he stands as a NBA player at this point.

Quote:
Well it is a good thing for him that he was smart enough not to go to Europe. But then that begs the question of why hasn't the dolt picked a school yet?
Hes going to make a decision after his sexual assault thing is over with.

Quote:
Why does a player need "promotion", that's what I want to ask. this is the main question of my post. Isn't playing well promotion enough, isn't demonstrating your talent promotion enough for dozens of other top 2009 recruits, including several better than Stephenson? Why is it a good thing that his father has tried obsessively to control his career and generate hype, and has meddled in his affairs to the extent that the kid's amatuer status is coming into question? Seriously, this New York hype machine hasn't propelled many players into the NBA that I can remember.
Because people who dont even follow HS basketball know of him in NYC, usually people learn about players once they are in college and become successful but Lance has been well known & documented since probably 8th grade.
The promotion aspect comes from his being a streetballer, it can definetly hype players up like Rafer Alston, Kenny Satterfield, and a few others who reached the NBA but didnt make it past the final cut.

Quote:
No amount of high school hype is going to disguise how well he plays for the next couple years in college, so he better just pick a damn school before none of them want him, and play ball. If he PLAYS well, he'll get into the NBA. It doesn't matter what his nickname is or what he did in HS or how great and important he thinks he is, NBA scouts will judge him based on how he performs, and actually his prima donna attitude will probably lower his stock. All this talk from people like you isn't impressing anyone, because frankly it's just highschool.
Sure, but its almost certainly going to be just 1 year of college.



Quote:
Also, good to hear that Derrick Caracter will get a degree at least. If the ****ing fool had lost weight and worked hard on his game he probably could have been a pro, but he's lazy and stupid, so what are you going to do?
People fail to realize that Caracter was once about 6'7 220 as a HS freshman and was the #1 HS freshman in the country espescially after how well he performed at the ABCD camp, then grew into a poor mans Big Baby.
Interminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 02:05 PM   #57
STelfair31
National High School Star
 
STelfair31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: ISH'S FINEST
Posts: 2,205
STelfair31 has decent reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

The NBA is completely a different level than that of the NCAA. Most of the NBA scrubs were once NCAA All-Americans. There is a complete different mindset too. As with HS basketball to college.
STelfair31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 02:20 PM   #58
A.M.G.
Dr. Chim Richalds
 
A.M.G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: plane of pure scrumtrulesence
Posts: 3,595
A.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator
Hes charged with slapping a girls butt that he was playing with, him & 2 of his teammates were playing with her and she felt violated.



We have to see how well he does in college, but I am not truly sure about where he stands as a NBA player at this point.


Hes going to make a decision after his sexual assault thing is over with.


Because people who dont even follow HS basketball know of him in NYC, usually people learn about players once they are in college and become successful but Lance has been well known & documented since probably 8th grade.
The promotion aspect comes from his being a streetballer, it can definetly hype players up like Rafer Alston, Kenny Satterfield, and a few others who reached the NBA but didnt make it past the final cut.


Sure, but its almost certainly going to be just 1 year of college.




People fail to realize that Caracter was once about 6'7 220 as a HS freshman and was the #1 HS freshman in the country espescially after how well he performed at the ABCD camp, then grew into a poor mans Big Baby.
So how long does he expect before this sexual assault thing is going to be done with? I mean it could take a while.

And why would something like that prevent him from choosing a school, anyways? He should just go to to ****ing Memphis and be done with it.


And I don`t know why you are saying he is a for sure one`n`done, I haven`t seen him on any 2010 mock drafts, he will evidently have to PERFORM at the college level, believe it or not all his "hype" won`t get him drafted if he sucks or is just average next year in college.
A.M.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 02:53 PM   #59
Interminator
Banned
 
Interminator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 12,774
Interminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation hereInterminator has a near all-star reputation here
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.M.G.
So how long does he expect before this sexual assault thing is going to be done with? I mean it could take a while.
It will be over later this month.

Quote:
And why would something like that prevent him from choosing a school, anyways? He should just go to to ****ing Memphis and be done with it.
Because he wants that chapter closed before he makes a decision, the looming sexual assault court case has held up his recruitment because he claims he didn't do anything wrong and didnt plead guilty and receive community service and got it over and done with.


Quote:
And I don`t know why you are saying he is a for sure one`n`done, I haven`t seen him on any 2010 mock drafts, he will evidently have to PERFORM at the college level, believe it or not all his "hype" won`t get him drafted if he sucks or is just average next year in college.
Lance is a 1 & Done, thats been well known thats how it would go down.

If I were you I wouldnt look at 2010 Mock Drafts now, 9 of the 5* prospects in 2010 are sure 1 & Dones yet 5 are only listed.
Interminator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2009, 03:28 PM   #60
A.M.G.
Dr. Chim Richalds
 
A.M.G.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: plane of pure scrumtrulesence
Posts: 3,595
A.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputationA.M.G. has a terrific reputation
Default Re: News on Lance Stephenson courtesy of Yahoosports

Quote:
Originally Posted by Interminator


Lance is a 1 & Done, thats been well known thats how it would go down.

If I were you I wouldnt look at 2010 Mock Drafts now, 9 of the 5* prospects in 2010 are sure 1 & Dones yet 5 are only listed.
Come on now, it's up to NBA teams whether he would go first round or not. We have to see him play in college before we make assumptions like that. If he doesn't perform well, he won't be drafted first round, it's pretty much that simple. He has to actually be good enough.

Maybe he is, **** he probably is, but again stop acting like you know this for sure. And if he is just a for sure 1'n'done and is going to be a hassle for whatever school signs him, couldn't he just like do nothing for a year, get drafted off his high school hype alone?

Then let him fail in the NBA at his leisure?
A.M.G. is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy