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Old 06-02-2009, 04:22 PM   #1
Roundball_Rock
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Default For Bryant, much debate but no rival

This is a good article on Kobe in today's New York Times. Here are some excerpts:

Quote:
A rival? In 13 seasons Bryant has never had one. A few audacious souls have tried to claim the title. Some players with comparable star power have traveled in a parallel orbit. But if a rivalry is defined by similar talents going head to head and competing at the highest level over several years, then the role remains vacant.

Quote:
It is hard to duplicate that dynamic. Bryant has never faced, for example, Miami’s Dwyane Wade in the finals. He competed against Boston’s Paul Pierce, another All-Star swingman, in last year’s finals. But the Celtics failed to repeat. In the recent Western Conference finals, Bryant dueled Carmelo Anthony, another rising star, but the two rarely guarded each other.

Quote:
Bryant said he looked forward to playing Jordan and Clyde Drexler in his early years. But even as an 18-year-old rookie he was not looking for players to measure himself against.

“It was more of: What can I learn from them and use to enhance my own game?” he said. “It wasn’t a matter of seeing where I stand against them.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/sp...er=rss&emc=rss
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

That is true. I dont see why ESPN tried to manafacture the LeBron rivalry. Oh well. I cant wait until. The 2003 draft class final years. Hopefully Wade leads the pack. But Kobe outlasted players like Iverson, McGrady who were drafted around the same time.
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Old 06-02-2009, 04:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

I understand not considering Paul Pierce as Kobe's rival, but not because the Celtics won't repeat. Pierce and the Celts tore The Bean and the rest of the Lakers a new ******* last year.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

I was thinking about this the other day. In the early part of the decade, it was Kobe vs. Iverson/Tmac/Vince, etc. Now those guys have become an afterthought and its Kobe vs. Lebron/Wade/Melo, etc...that's greatness.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

I was going to post this. How many perimeter players have been seen as rivals to Kobe during his career...

Iverson
McGrady
Carter
Wade
LeBron
etc.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
“It was more of: What can I learn from them and use to enhance my own game?” he said. “It wasn’t a matter of seeing where I stand against them.”


More like: What can I steal from them and use to enhance my own game....

Last edited by 100grandman : 06-02-2009 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Kobe is not that great. He is vastly overrated by many. He is a great player, but Wade and Lebron are better. Iverson and Mcgrady was better from 2001-2003 as well. The fact is, this guy always has to has a great team to go far. He couldnt win with Caron Butler by his side in 04-05. Wade had Odom and went to the Eastern Semifinals as a Rookie. Lebron had Big Z and went to the Finals in 2007. Iverson went to the Finals in 2001 with Motumbo and Eric Snow. VC only had Antonio Davis and went to Eastern Semifinals in 2001. For Kobe to win, he had to have a stacked team.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
Kobe is not that great. He is vastly overrated by many. He is a great player, but Wade and Lebron are better. Iverson and Mcgrady was better from 2001-2003 as well. The fact is, this guy always has to has a great team to go far. He couldnt win with Caron Butler by his side in 04-05. Wade had Odom and went to the Eastern Semifinals as a Rookie. Lebron had Big Z and went to the Finals in 2007. Iverson went to the Finals in 2001 with Motumbo and Eric Snow. VC only had Antonio Davis and went to Eastern Semifinals in 2001. For Kobe to win, he had to have a stacked team.

Me and Steve Nash will be watching Kobe and the Lakers in the finals on Thursday at my house, want to come?!
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
Kobe is not that great. He is vastly overrated by many. He is a great player, but Wade and Lebron are better. Iverson and Mcgrady was better from 2001-2003 as well. The fact is, this guy always has to has a great team to go far. He couldnt win with Caron Butler by his side in 04-05. Wade had Odom and went to the Eastern Semifinals as a Rookie. Lebron had Big Z and went to the Finals in 2007. Iverson went to the Finals in 2001 with Motumbo and Eric Snow. VC only had Antonio Davis and went to Eastern Semifinals in 2001. For Kobe to win, he had to have a stacked team.

All were weak ass conferences and guess what? Niether of them have ever won anything those supporting casts either. Nobody can do it alone.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsizzle
All were weak ass conferences and guess what? Niether of them have ever won anything those supporting casts either. Nobody can do it alone.
Iverson and James won the Eastern Conference. While you dont get rings for that, it is an achievement. For people to say that he didnt even have a rival is idiotic. He is not that good. Wilt had Russell. Bird had Magic. MJ had Drexler until the 91 finals. Everyone has a rival, bottom line.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:34 PM   #11
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix18
Kobe is not that great. He is vastly overrated by many. He is a great player, but Wade and Lebron are better. Iverson and Mcgrady was better from 2001-2003 as well. The fact is, this guy always has to has a great team to go far. He couldnt win with Caron Butler by his side in 04-05. Wade had Odom and went to the Eastern Semifinals as a Rookie. Lebron had Big Z and went to the Finals in 2007. Iverson went to the Finals in 2001 with Motumbo and Eric Snow. VC only had Antonio Davis and went to Eastern Semifinals in 2001. For Kobe to win, he had to have a stacked team.

Kobe is not great? Says who? Some peasant in text? He is vastly underrated and diminished. I agree he is a superb player, and Wade and LeBron had better seasons than him this year - you saying they are "better" is highly irrelevant because that is your opinion. Kobe's career is not over and overall it's still better than theirs. The Facts:

Kobe in 2004-2005: Was .500+ before the allstar break, Caron, Odom, and Kobe missed a combined 35+ games (Kobe 16 games). The team also had to deal with their head coach resigning - Rudy T.

Kobe in 2005-2006: Led a team with a starting lineup that consisted of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. They lost in seven games to a team that lost in 6 in the Western Conference Finals (Suns).

LeBron also had a great defensive team and "not just big Z". Boobie was actually better along with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden.

Iverson also had a great coach in Larry Brown and Dikembe was the reigning DPOY along with players who knew their roles - great defensive team.

Kobe: stats, rings, dominance, honors, impact, records, etc are clearly in favor of him, not his peers.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by catch24
Kobe is not great? Says who? Some peasant in text? He is vastly underrated and diminished. I agree he is a superb player, and Wade and LeBron had better seasons than him this year - you saying they are "better" is highly irrelevant because that is your opinion. Kobe's career is not over and overall it's still better than theirs. The Facts:

Kobe in 2004-2005: Was .500+ before the allstar break, Caron, Odom, and Kobe missed a combined 35+ games (Kobe 16 games). The team also had to deal with their head coach resigning - Rudy T.

Kobe in 2005-2006: Led a team with a starting lineup that consisted of Kwame Brown and Smush Parker. They lost in seven games to a team that lost in 6 in the Western Conference Finals (Suns).

LeBron also had a great defensive team and "not just big Z". Boobie was actually better along with Larry Hughes and Drew Gooden.

Iverson also had a great coach in Larry Brown and Dikembe was the reigning DPOY along with players who knew their roles - great defensive team.Kobe: stats, rings, dominance, honors, impact, records, etc are clearly in favor of him, not his peers.

Don't forget the 6th man of the Year!
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:38 PM   #13
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin
Don't forget the 6th man of the Year!

And the 6th man of the year
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Wade had Odom and went to the Eastern Semifinals as a Rookie.

Wade? Wade was the third leading scorer on that team behind Eddie Jones and Lamar Odom. Odom was the best player on the team and you are crediting rookie Wade? Wade could not even beat the Hawks in the first round this year. The Hawks would have been 10th in the West.
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Old 06-02-2009, 05:53 PM   #15
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Default Re: For Bryant, much debate but no rival

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundball_Rock
Wade? Wade was the third leading scorer on that team behind Eddie Jones and Lamar Odom. Odom was the best player on the team and you are crediting rookie Wade? Wade could not even beat the Hawks in the first round this year. The Hawks would have been 10th in the West.

And he had Caron Butler

Last edited by catch24 : 06-02-2009 at 06:02 PM.
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