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Old 06-06-2009, 01:24 PM   #16
antonaki1
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmart
1) Barganni has no back to the basket game he tries to use the jumper when hes backing down but he can't.

2) You put a 3 on Barganni and hes dead because he can't shoot the 3 and can't drive so he tries to back down and use the fade away.

3) We were the worst rebounding team. Barganni got 6 a game when he was starting so their is no way in h*** that he gets any "beast" boards CB4 is clearly our best rebounder. Barganni was nowhere close to consistent on the boards

4) Barganni was never clutch and was never meant to be a go to guy.

Clearly, you didn't watch this past season.
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Bosh is still a MUCH more complete player than Bargs, don't talk silly. He did play great the second half of this year however, and hpefully keeps it up.

However, Andrea's going back to Italy for the summer and I'm afraid he's gonna come back the perimeter playing little ***** he was his first 2 and a half years in the league. That big man camp he took part in last year really helped him I think, wasn't afraid to bang a little bit....
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Old 06-06-2009, 01:56 PM   #18
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmart
1) Barganni has no back to the basket game he tries to use the jumper when hes backing down but he can't.

2) You put a 3 on Barganni and hes dead because he can't shoot the 3 and can't drive so he tries to back down and use the fade away.

3) We were the worst rebounding team. Barganni got 6 a game when he was starting so their is no way in h*** that he gets any "beast" boards CB4 is clearly our best rebounder. Barganni was nowhere close to consistent on the boards

4) Barganni was never clutch and was never meant to be a go to guy.

The points you made in 1, 2 and 4 are completely false. His back to the basket game, 3 PT shot and drive were all facets of his game that has greatly improved last season. He also hit 3 or 4 very clutch shots for us throughout the season as well and I for one would rather him have the ball in his hands for the last shot than CB4's.
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Old 06-06-2009, 02:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

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Originally Posted by Toni
The points you made in 1, 2 and 4 are completely false. His back to the basket game, 3 PT shot and drive were all facets of his game that has greatly improved last season. He also hit 3 or 4 very clutch shots for us throughout the season as well and I for one would rather him have the ball in his hands for the last shot than CB4's.

K maybe he did have a back to the basket game but he did have problems finishing down there. He could use a little more time to develop his finishing ability when posting up though.

But Barganni's upside was his ability to drive to the hole, shoot the 3 if anyone laid off him, and run the floor.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:03 PM   #20
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
I think it's possible too. I just don't think it's very likely.

Lots of things are possible. It's possible Joey Graham could become an All-Star but past evidence leads us to believe otherwise. I'm not one who holds out hope for long shots. Based on everything we've seen from Bosh's and Bargnani's careers, I don't think it's likely that Bargnani will ever be as productive as Bosh.

If you were forced to bet all the money you have on Bargnani being better than Bosh, would you? I'm sure we all hope he can be since it seems like he is here to stay for many years but if it's a 30-70 thing of him being better than Bosh, I'm not gonna bank on the 30%.

Alright then I guess we're in more agreement than I thought. This thread really should not exist though since beastani said that right now Bargs is better than Bosh and that is clearly unequivically false.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

I prefer to speak for myself, so in the future please let me do so Lil.

I prefer Bargnani, I think he has more upside. And I think he's a 5. But, I still like Bosh, he's unique. And I still think these two guys, with Calderon and the right 2 & 3 could be a very very good team.

Bosh had not hit his ceiling as far as his development, just that his learning curve is starting to flatten out, but he will continue to improve.

Bargnani has simply taken more time to develop then most Raptor fans would have liked. The kid has a great game. Year two was a disaster for him, but he didn't complain. We never heard that he was having trouble breathing because of the sinus issues he was having. He didn't make excuses, he didn't sulk and he didn't hide. He had surgery to repair his sinuses, he bulked up a little, and he really worked hard on his back to the basket game.

You have to remember that the kid played and won the Italian championship (as the starting centre I might add), was drafted first overall. He played his first year in the NBA, first 82 game schedule and played for the Italian team in the summer. Another 82 game schedule and back to Italy for the National team again where he was panned by the Italian coach and lost some confidence. Last summer was the first break in three years for him. Rest and a work out regiment did him a lot of good.

I hold out very high hopes for him this year. He seems to finally get it, that he has to get stronger, continue to develop his back to the basket game. He blocks out very well so his rebounding numbers don't concern me as much as it does some here. I don't care who gets the rebounds as long as it's a Raptor, and I think Bargnani has helped Bosh out a little in that respect. More importantly Bargnani is a team player. He's not out to get his numbers, he's out to win. Some here trash Euro players, but they all seem to be better team mates, less into what they do and more into what the team does. And that best describes Andrea, a team player.

I have defended Bargnani here since day 1. Maybe sometimes I have been a little too aggressive in doing so, but his detractors here have also been more then unfair with him. And I won’t pick one player over the other as the franchise player. Neither are in my opinion. But that does not mean that they both can't be All Stars. I could see them one day soon both as All Stars, maybe not starters, but All Stars.
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kungfro
I'm a bigger fan of Bargnani. I don't think he's better than bosh, but I like him more.

That's it right there. Bargnani is great to watch (most of the time). Some might like his game better than Bosh. Cool. Is he better??
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Old 06-06-2009, 03:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

this forum has gone to hell.
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Old 06-06-2009, 04:13 PM   #24
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

My biggest reservation with Bargnani at the moment is that he seems hung up on playing for Italy again which IMO blows if you want to see what the kid looks like after another big-man training camp.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:02 PM   #25
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by b4ball
I prefer to speak for myself, so in the future please let me do so Lil.

I prefer Bargnani, I think he has more upside. And I think he's a 5. But, I still like Bosh, he's unique. And I still think these two guys, with Calderon and the right 2 & 3 could be a very very good team.

Bosh had not hit his ceiling as far as his development, just that his learning curve is starting to flatten out, but he will continue to improve.

Bargnani has simply taken more time to develop then most Raptor fans would have liked. The kid has a great game. Year two was a disaster for him, but he didn't complain. We never heard that he was having trouble breathing because of the sinus issues he was having. He didn't make excuses, he didn't sulk and he didn't hide. He had surgery to repair his sinuses, he bulked up a little, and he really worked hard on his back to the basket game.

You have to remember that the kid played and won the Italian championship (as the starting centre I might add), was drafted first overall. He played his first year in the NBA, first 82 game schedule and played for the Italian team in the summer. Another 82 game schedule and back to Italy for the National team again where he was panned by the Italian coach and lost some confidence. Last summer was the first break in three years for him. Rest and a work out regiment did him a lot of good.

I hold out very high hopes for him this year. He seems to finally get it, that he has to get stronger, continue to develop his back to the basket game. He blocks out very well so his rebounding numbers don't concern me as much as it does some here. I don't care who gets the rebounds as long as it's a Raptor, and I think Bargnani has helped Bosh out a little in that respect. More importantly Bargnani is a team player. He's not out to get his numbers, he's out to win. Some here trash Euro players, but they all seem to be better team mates, less into what they do and more into what the team does. And that best describes Andrea, a team player.

I have defended Bargnani here since day 1. Maybe sometimes I have been a little too aggressive in doing so, but his detractors here have also been more then unfair with him. And I won’t pick one player over the other as the franchise player. Neither are in my opinion. But that does not mean that they both can't be All Stars. I could see them one day soon both as All Stars, maybe not starters, but All Stars.


Perfect synopsis of Andrea. Also you have to credit Triano for believing in him more than Sam Mitchell. No question the vastly increased playing time accelerated his development.

Is he capable of being a franchise player? Damn right he is. Franchise players have the added benefit of getting the ball more than anyone else on team. That increased responsibility develops your game to a new level. Give Andrea all Bosh's touches and he's very capable of being a franchise player.

Having said that, i still would prefer Bosh remained here as the centrepiece of our offence, but unless he signs an extension this summer, can't really see how that can happen. You pretty much need to trade him to be on the safe side. If he really likes Toronto that much, than you have a chance to try to sign him as a free agent next year. In the meantime you would have aquired some quality talent and even some tradeable assets.

If he leaves next year for nothing, than we would have to start a multi year rebuild pretty much from scratch.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:23 PM   #26
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonaki1
Perfect synopsis of Andrea. Also you have to credit Triano for believing in him more than Sam Mitchell. No question the vastly increased playing time accelerated his development.

Is he capable of being a franchise player? Damn right he is. Franchise players have the added benefit of getting the ball more than anyone else on team. That increased responsibility develops your game to a new level. Give Andrea all Bosh's touches and he's very capable of being a franchise player.

Having said that, i still would prefer Bosh remained here as the centrepiece of our offence, but unless he signs an extension this summer, can't really see how that can happen. You pretty much need to trade him to be on the safe side. If he really likes Toronto that much, than you have a chance to try to sign him as a free agent next year. In the meantime you would have aquired some quality talent and even some tradeable assets.

If he leaves next year for nothing, than we would have to start a multi year rebuild pretty much from scratch.

Andrea getting more playing time was more a function of JO being hurt than Jay seeing something in him that Sam did not. Also if we trade Bosh this summer he's not going to resign with us in 2010 as he'd only be able to get max dollars from the team we trade him to so it would take a S&T to get him back which would mean that we traded him this summer for nothing.
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:34 PM   #27
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Troll? Look at their career numbers, I don't even have to go in depth with skill-wise, achievements, etc.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:26 PM   #28
antonaki1
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJMason
Andrea getting more playing time was more a function of JO being hurt than Jay seeing something in him that Sam did not. Also if we trade Bosh this summer he's not going to resign with us in 2010 as he'd only be able to get max dollars from the team we trade him to so it would take a S&T to get him back which would mean that we traded him this summer for nothing.

Granted...But i'm starting to wonder if we can really win paying Chris max dollars. He was relatively healthy all season and still not capable of making us much of a contender. You have to wonder how we can afford everything else we seemingly need in order to actually become a contender. I really don't feel it a huge risk to trade him at this stage if he's not interested in signing an extension this summer.
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by antonaki1
Granted...But i'm starting to wonder if we can really win paying Chris max dollars. He was relatively healthy all season and still not capable of making us much of a contender. You have to wonder how we can afford everything else we seemingly need in order to actually become a contender. I really don't feel it a huge risk to trade him at this stage if he's not interested in signing an extension this summer.

K buddy most of this season we had someone banged up. J.O., Jose, Hump, Chris(himself), and Barganni were all injured at one point in the season. Plus we also lacked major depth so the injuries were even more of a factor. We ended up having Vouskul as our best big off the bench. So for you to criticize Bosh for not winning this year isn't right. Chris does not have a team and Chris cannot win by himself.

And it is a huge risk trading Bosh in terms of winning. We lose a 4 time all-star for who? A bunch of fillers. Look at Minnesota they'll never be the same without Garnett. Not saying Bosh is Garnett but Bosh is a pretty big part of our team I'm sure. So trading him is a risk.

Another thing is when did Chris say he want max money?
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Old 06-06-2009, 09:54 PM   #30
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Default Re: The *Official* Bargnani > Bosh thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by danumber88
Troll? Look at their career numbers, I don't even have to go in depth with skill-wise, achievements, etc.

agreed
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